Carb Question...
08-30-2011, 06:13 PM
#31
Registered
Have you tested same sort of build both ways ? Vic Jr vs RPM dual plane ?
On a 502 ?
Not an OEM iron head, not a low lift HR or Hyd ?
Meaning a Modern effecient cyl head with modern higher lift HR ?
Edit in: You mention in your BBC Marine book the Crane 731 and 741 more than once....how about with these cams ?
I think you may change some of your answers if you did.
IMHO and experience.
On a 502 ?
Not an OEM iron head, not a low lift HR or Hyd ?
Meaning a Modern effecient cyl head with modern higher lift HR ?
Edit in: You mention in your BBC Marine book the Crane 731 and 741 more than once....how about with these cams ?
I think you may change some of your answers if you did.
IMHO and experience.
Last edited by SB; 08-30-2011 at 06:17 PM.
08-30-2011, 06:26 PM
#32
Registered
Platinum Member
Actually, what really bothers me is a so called professional engine builder that install heads designed to increase low speed torque and single plane intake manifolds designed for high speeds. It is just this type of crazy engine combinations that make the good engine builders in the marine industry look foolish.
08-31-2011, 10:51 AM
#33
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
I will admit that with the slow economy and the boating business all but dead, I am on this forum to help promote my business (as are you).
I
I hope that people reading this appreciate my honesty.
Sincerely
Dennis Moore
[email protected][/QUOTE]
Dennis, YOU ARE A AZZ CLOWN!!! Hey, why don't you sell a few more copy's of your outdated book and use the money to become a PAID member or better yet, being that you are going to "promote your business" on here
, why don't you spend the 500$ and become a PAID advertiser!!! As far as "holley carb's having the needle and seats dry out over winter" about 25 years ago they came up with MODERN materials to make needles and seats from that seem to last YEARS AND YEARS, I have pulled holleys of the shelf that I built 15 years ago with quality float bowl gaskets/ metering block gaskets, blown them off and put them on a motor without having any leaks. I think the last time a boat came with a quadrajet was what, 1989? This is 2011 DUMBFUK, why don't you tell some oso'ers about this modern invention called "fuel injection" or didn't you learn about that back in quadrajet school, you are good entertainment, you remind me of the old timers that were convinced they needed to rip all that modern hei stuff and efi off motors and bolt in points distributors because god forbid this modern stuff is just to complicated , Smitty
I
I hope that people reading this appreciate my honesty.
Sincerely
Dennis Moore
[email protected][/QUOTE]
Dennis, YOU ARE A AZZ CLOWN!!! Hey, why don't you sell a few more copy's of your outdated book and use the money to become a PAID member or better yet, being that you are going to "promote your business" on here
, why don't you spend the 500$ and become a PAID advertiser!!! As far as "holley carb's having the needle and seats dry out over winter" about 25 years ago they came up with MODERN materials to make needles and seats from that seem to last YEARS AND YEARS, I have pulled holleys of the shelf that I built 15 years ago with quality float bowl gaskets/ metering block gaskets, blown them off and put them on a motor without having any leaks. I think the last time a boat came with a quadrajet was what, 1989? This is 2011 DUMBFUK, why don't you tell some oso'ers about this modern invention called "fuel injection" or didn't you learn about that back in quadrajet school, you are good entertainment, you remind me of the old timers that were convinced they needed to rip all that modern hei stuff and efi off motors and bolt in points distributors because god forbid this modern stuff is just to complicated , Smitty
08-31-2011, 10:54 AM
#34
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Hey All,
I have a 454 that was converted to an HP 500.
It has a Holley 4150 850 CFM on it, that went to ****
this past weekend. Blown power valve, float adjustment adjustment is stripped right out of the bowl.
Long story short, I am looking for a new carb...
Can anyone suggest a carb that will be pretty much set when I bolt it on..?
I understand that they are (Can be) difficult to dial in..?
Please let me know...
Thank You,
Jim
I have a 454 that was converted to an HP 500.
It has a Holley 4150 850 CFM on it, that went to ****
this past weekend. Blown power valve, float adjustment adjustment is stripped right out of the bowl.
Long story short, I am looking for a new carb...
Can anyone suggest a carb that will be pretty much set when I bolt it on..?
I understand that they are (Can be) difficult to dial in..?
Please let me know...
Thank You,
Jim
08-31-2011, 11:39 AM
#35
Registered
You guys are a real class act.
50% of the population of the world responds with emotional reactions to problems that frustrate them.
They are called women!
I can't think of a better thing to respond with other than YOU men react like women!
HA HA HA
You should be real proud of yourselves.
It would be nice if you ladies could keep it on technical topics and not get personal.
Dennis Moore
50% of the population of the world responds with emotional reactions to problems that frustrate them.
They are called women!
I can't think of a better thing to respond with other than YOU men react like women!
HA HA HA
You should be real proud of yourselves.
It would be nice if you ladies could keep it on technical topics and not get personal.
Dennis Moore
08-31-2011, 02:19 PM
#36
Registered
You need to meet my wife then.
One of our fist dates involved going thru a set of Dom's for a twin engine SC boat. Me with one, her with the other.
If your lucky she might show you how to go thru it instead of throwing it at you. She might....dunno...can't be responsible for the actions.
Holley's (including Dominators no less) and women. Both a great part of my boating life. You figure ? Guess you don't !
I guess it's guys, Edelbrock carbs, and stock-mild performance motors for you ????????????
BTW: good luck with the global warming crying you've been speaking/typing but while still promoting 'performance' boats.
One of our fist dates involved going thru a set of Dom's for a twin engine SC boat. Me with one, her with the other.
If your lucky she might show you how to go thru it instead of throwing it at you. She might....dunno...can't be responsible for the actions.
Holley's (including Dominators no less) and women. Both a great part of my boating life. You figure ? Guess you don't !
I guess it's guys, Edelbrock carbs, and stock-mild performance motors for you ????????????
BTW: good luck with the global warming crying you've been speaking/typing but while still promoting 'performance' boats.
09-04-2011, 11:16 AM
#38
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Location: TEXAS
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Good Points Made?
The main problem with Holley four barrels is the needle and seat. They are at the top of the bowl and exposed to air. They will dry out after sitting the winter. The next spring they will not seal when the engine is started and the floats will overflow. New needle and seats every year.
A Quadrajet carburetor has the needle and seat in the bottom of the bowl. It is covered with gasoline all winter and remains moist. If you use a fuel stabilizer the needle and seat works fine the next spring (and many springs after).
Rebuilding a Holley is a crapshoot because the metering block can get plugged with debris or varnish and there is no way to clean it out unless you remove the welch plug.
Plugged metering blocks are the main reason why there are so many used Holley carbs sitting in the junk pile!
A Holley carburetor will shoot too much raw fuel into the engine every time the throttle is opened. This washes down the cylinders of oil, will cause premature wear to the rings and dilute the crankcase/oil with raw fuel. The diluted oil will wipe out the cam lobes on a flat lifter camshaft.
A Quadrajet or Edelbrock carburetor has a cup style accelerator pump with a slot in the pump bore.
Fuel will bleed off (back) into the float bowel when the throttle is opened slowly.
Smaller pump shot.
If the throttle is opened quickly less fuel will bleed off into the float bowel.
Larger pump shot.
Holleys have a positive displacement accelerator pump and once the pump shot volume and duration are adjusted (pump shooters and pump cam) the same amount of fuel is shot into the engine whether the throttle is opened slowly or quickly. This makes for a very rich air/fuel mixture when slowly maneuvering around the docks or at the launch ramp.
The square bore Edelbrock has twin float bowls and twin needle and seats and is the same carburetor (Weber four barrel/Carter AFB) that Mercruiser used when they could no longer buy Quadrajets from GM. It is important to realize that Mercruiser chose the Weber Four Barrel over the Holley Four Barrel for installation on Mercruiser Sterndrive engines for reliability issues.
Dennis Moore
A Quadrajet carburetor has the needle and seat in the bottom of the bowl. It is covered with gasoline all winter and remains moist. If you use a fuel stabilizer the needle and seat works fine the next spring (and many springs after).
Rebuilding a Holley is a crapshoot because the metering block can get plugged with debris or varnish and there is no way to clean it out unless you remove the welch plug.
Plugged metering blocks are the main reason why there are so many used Holley carbs sitting in the junk pile!
A Holley carburetor will shoot too much raw fuel into the engine every time the throttle is opened. This washes down the cylinders of oil, will cause premature wear to the rings and dilute the crankcase/oil with raw fuel. The diluted oil will wipe out the cam lobes on a flat lifter camshaft.
A Quadrajet or Edelbrock carburetor has a cup style accelerator pump with a slot in the pump bore.
Fuel will bleed off (back) into the float bowel when the throttle is opened slowly.
Smaller pump shot.
If the throttle is opened quickly less fuel will bleed off into the float bowel.
Larger pump shot.
Holleys have a positive displacement accelerator pump and once the pump shot volume and duration are adjusted (pump shooters and pump cam) the same amount of fuel is shot into the engine whether the throttle is opened slowly or quickly. This makes for a very rich air/fuel mixture when slowly maneuvering around the docks or at the launch ramp.
The square bore Edelbrock has twin float bowls and twin needle and seats and is the same carburetor (Weber four barrel/Carter AFB) that Mercruiser used when they could no longer buy Quadrajets from GM. It is important to realize that Mercruiser chose the Weber Four Barrel over the Holley Four Barrel for installation on Mercruiser Sterndrive engines for reliability issues.
Dennis Moore
THX
09-05-2011, 10:42 AM
#39
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What are your opinions?
Interesting...however anytime I read something that seems as biased as your opinion against Holley's it makes me wonder what's the motive for the bias. If Quadrajet and Edelbrock carbs are so much better than Holley carbs...why do so many performance builders use Holleys? Is it because Holleys are tunable to specific apps and the others aren't? Just wondering.
Instead of claiming he is biased, what are your arguments against his technical claims?
This goes to all the Pros out there.
09-05-2011, 11:45 AM
#40
Registered
OP says he has an HP500 clone. Which would you have feeding it ? Quadrajet 750, Edelbrock/Weber 750 / or Holley 850 as OP has ?
DM makes suggestions, as he stated, for those doing bolt on's like intake/carb on stock motors. His more modified engines include slight cam upgrades and exhaust. Maybe larger valves in factory heads.
That's it for his engine mods.
#2: He says Holley's are junk and for some reason he doesn't think Mercruiser uses them. #3: Volvo Penta uses/used Holley 2bbl's and 4bbl's pretty much for ever.
Maybe we should distinguish the terminology between performance and high performance ? Although, even with mild performance, many of us can get superb driveability, mileage, and better top end with a Holley.
Ask every hi performance marine engine builder out there what they use for carbs:
Mercury Racing
Sterling
Keith Eickert
Zul
Chief
Teague
Crockett
M.E.R
Pfaff
on and on and on and on.
Or should I continue ?
===============================
As far as the carb tuner statement against Prosystems, Willy's, Nickerson, Williams, etc,etc is another totally ubsurb statement.
Just like with Holley's If one can't tune or modify an Edelbrock/Weber/Quadrajet for ultimate idle, driveability, and performance for their particular engine what do you do ? You send them out to or buy one from someone that can.
Mild performance out of the box calibrated carburetors are made for specific size mild performance engines. Mild performance. An out of the box Qaudrajet / Edelbrock 600/750 / Holley 600-750 are all calibrated for mild performance. 600's for small blocks, 750's for 454's.........................This concept is easy.
No reason for anyone to hate any carb. They work out of the box great for what they are made for. They don't work well for what they are not made for.
If someone doesn't understand how to work on a certain carb that does not make it junk.
If someone choses the wrong size or calibration carb, this does not make it junk.
We are in the 2010's. No longer 1980's. Things have changed a lot. Even with carburetors.
.
DM makes suggestions, as he stated, for those doing bolt on's like intake/carb on stock motors. His more modified engines include slight cam upgrades and exhaust. Maybe larger valves in factory heads.
That's it for his engine mods.
#2: He says Holley's are junk and for some reason he doesn't think Mercruiser uses them. #3: Volvo Penta uses/used Holley 2bbl's and 4bbl's pretty much for ever.
Maybe we should distinguish the terminology between performance and high performance ? Although, even with mild performance, many of us can get superb driveability, mileage, and better top end with a Holley.
Ask every hi performance marine engine builder out there what they use for carbs:
Mercury Racing
Sterling
Keith Eickert
Zul
Chief
Teague
Crockett
M.E.R
Pfaff
on and on and on and on.
Or should I continue ?
===============================
As far as the carb tuner statement against Prosystems, Willy's, Nickerson, Williams, etc,etc is another totally ubsurb statement.
Just like with Holley's If one can't tune or modify an Edelbrock/Weber/Quadrajet for ultimate idle, driveability, and performance for their particular engine what do you do ? You send them out to or buy one from someone that can.
Mild performance out of the box calibrated carburetors are made for specific size mild performance engines. Mild performance. An out of the box Qaudrajet / Edelbrock 600/750 / Holley 600-750 are all calibrated for mild performance. 600's for small blocks, 750's for 454's.........................This concept is easy.
No reason for anyone to hate any carb. They work out of the box great for what they are made for. They don't work well for what they are not made for.
If someone doesn't understand how to work on a certain carb that does not make it junk.
If someone choses the wrong size or calibration carb, this does not make it junk.
We are in the 2010's. No longer 1980's. Things have changed a lot. Even with carburetors.
.
Last edited by SB; 09-05-2011 at 11:51 AM.
