Speaker & Sub Selection & Placement
04-07-2016, 01:43 PM
#11
I appreciate all the input. Jstrahn, your advice is sound, and I wish it'd have come earlier because you made some great points.
I have purchased everything for my system and am beginning on installation this weekend.
As planned, I am keeping the current head unit. I purchased the clarion EQ, which gives me the pre-outs I need (F, R, and sub) and they are 6v pre-outs compared to the 2volt pro-outs on most of the cheap head units. I purchased an exile audio 4.0 blue tooth unit to use as the auxiliary input into the EQ which will allow anyone on the boat to pair their device as opposed to worrying about having the proper cords to connect different phones. I don't have any digital music other than using pandora so I will rely on friends for the music.
It took me a month to decide on the speakers and amps, I'm terrible at making decisions when there are so many options. In the end I decided on Powerbass coaxials mostly because of price and looks honestly. They have a new marine line out with an 8" coax, the XL-82ss and I picked up a pair of those off eBay for $110. These will go in the gunnels adjacent to the rear bench seat. I also picked up a pair each of the 3xl 6.5" and 5.25" coaxs on eBay and will select a pair to go in the gunnels up by the dash on either side. How the speakers fit with existing holes and my new Dana marine side mount control will determine which size I end up installing.
For subs, I ended up finding a pair of Kicker compVR DVC 12's on Crutchfield scratch and dent for $175 shipped. They will be wired up for a 1 ohm load. I contemplated going with Powerbass subs, but their lower end subs have a paper cone and foam surround, and I decided I didn't want to risk getting them wet and ruining them. The next model up was another $50 more expensive than the kickers so I went kicker. The kickers are a poly cone with rubber surround.
The subs will be mounted one on either side under the dash in the locations shown on my pictures above. They will face each other, ie subs pointing towards each other, not back towards the passenger.
I went a little overboard on the amps, I got a PPI phantom 900.4 for the coaxs, and a PPI phantom 1000.1 for the subs. They're both class D amps with the 900.4 being a full range and the 1000.1 a mono. I ended up paying $380 for the pair with 3 year warranties from sonic electronics. I kind of regret not just going with a 900.5 like many do, just because I would have saved $200 and probably would have been just as happy. At 12v, the amps I bought end up putting out just above the RMS wattage of my speakers so I figure they give me room to grow my system if I decide to add another couple pair of speakers down the road by wiring everything in parallel at 2 ohms.
Your comment about how I listen to music is a great one and one I don't really have an answer for because this is my first boat and I've only had it on the water once. I suspect I'll probably be adding some speakers just above the swim deck like you are for next season, which my amp will allow me to do no problem going to 2-ohm on each of the 4 channels.
I have purchased everything for my system and am beginning on installation this weekend.
As planned, I am keeping the current head unit. I purchased the clarion EQ, which gives me the pre-outs I need (F, R, and sub) and they are 6v pre-outs compared to the 2volt pro-outs on most of the cheap head units. I purchased an exile audio 4.0 blue tooth unit to use as the auxiliary input into the EQ which will allow anyone on the boat to pair their device as opposed to worrying about having the proper cords to connect different phones. I don't have any digital music other than using pandora so I will rely on friends for the music.
It took me a month to decide on the speakers and amps, I'm terrible at making decisions when there are so many options. In the end I decided on Powerbass coaxials mostly because of price and looks honestly. They have a new marine line out with an 8" coax, the XL-82ss and I picked up a pair of those off eBay for $110. These will go in the gunnels adjacent to the rear bench seat. I also picked up a pair each of the 3xl 6.5" and 5.25" coaxs on eBay and will select a pair to go in the gunnels up by the dash on either side. How the speakers fit with existing holes and my new Dana marine side mount control will determine which size I end up installing.
For subs, I ended up finding a pair of Kicker compVR DVC 12's on Crutchfield scratch and dent for $175 shipped. They will be wired up for a 1 ohm load. I contemplated going with Powerbass subs, but their lower end subs have a paper cone and foam surround, and I decided I didn't want to risk getting them wet and ruining them. The next model up was another $50 more expensive than the kickers so I went kicker. The kickers are a poly cone with rubber surround.
The subs will be mounted one on either side under the dash in the locations shown on my pictures above. They will face each other, ie subs pointing towards each other, not back towards the passenger.
I went a little overboard on the amps, I got a PPI phantom 900.4 for the coaxs, and a PPI phantom 1000.1 for the subs. They're both class D amps with the 900.4 being a full range and the 1000.1 a mono. I ended up paying $380 for the pair with 3 year warranties from sonic electronics. I kind of regret not just going with a 900.5 like many do, just because I would have saved $200 and probably would have been just as happy. At 12v, the amps I bought end up putting out just above the RMS wattage of my speakers so I figure they give me room to grow my system if I decide to add another couple pair of speakers down the road by wiring everything in parallel at 2 ohms.
Your comment about how I listen to music is a great one and one I don't really have an answer for because this is my first boat and I've only had it on the water once. I suspect I'll probably be adding some speakers just above the swim deck like you are for next season, which my amp will allow me to do no problem going to 2-ohm on each of the 4 channels.
04-08-2016, 12:32 AM
#12
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like you're going to have an awesome setup. Would love to see pictures once you complete the install.
As for the larger amps, head room is your friend. I'd much rather have power to spare than be underpowered. Most blown speakers occur because of people overdriving underpowered setups to clipping. Rarely will speakers fail due to overpowering.
I may be underpowered with my plan to use a single Soundstream 5 channel. We'll see once I get it installed.
As for the larger amps, head room is your friend. I'd much rather have power to spare than be underpowered. Most blown speakers occur because of people overdriving underpowered setups to clipping. Rarely will speakers fail due to overpowering.
I may be underpowered with my plan to use a single Soundstream 5 channel. We'll see once I get it installed.
04-18-2016, 08:09 PM
#14
The hardest part. It took me 1 jigsaw blade per speaker hole to cut these bastards out. These were Home Depot Bosch brand blades and they were the fine tooth models. Not sure why, but the teeth were gone after essentially a quarter of the circumference and I basically burned the rest of the hole out!
04-18-2016, 08:11 PM
#15
This past weekend was continuation of the stereo install. First off, I built some brackets to install my equailizer. I found the perfect spot for it, out of the way yet easily accessible.
Next up was building the sub boxes. I ended up with a sealed volume of 1.35 ft3. The manufacturer recomended 1ft3 for a compact sealed enclosure and with the space I had and the area I wanted to fill with these boxes, that's where I ended up. It is essnetially a rectangular cube, taller than it is wide, and the sides are designed to follow the contour of the side of the boat. There is a little pocket between the rear wall and the side of the boat that will be used for storage of small, very seldom used items - safety gear like first aid kit, flares, extra sunscreen, portable battery backup/jump start pack, etc. I mocked the box up in cardboard first and then drew out all the panels in CAD. Turned out OK for my first real carpentry project.
Next up was building the sub boxes. I ended up with a sealed volume of 1.35 ft3. The manufacturer recomended 1ft3 for a compact sealed enclosure and with the space I had and the area I wanted to fill with these boxes, that's where I ended up. It is essnetially a rectangular cube, taller than it is wide, and the sides are designed to follow the contour of the side of the boat. There is a little pocket between the rear wall and the side of the boat that will be used for storage of small, very seldom used items - safety gear like first aid kit, flares, extra sunscreen, portable battery backup/jump start pack, etc. I mocked the box up in cardboard first and then drew out all the panels in CAD. Turned out OK for my first real carpentry project.
04-18-2016, 08:11 PM
#16
I used t-nuts for securing the woofers to the face and I did disassemble everything and glue all of the seams using some Loctite 375 construction adhesive. I purchased some speaker connectors from Amazon that had good reviews and installed in the top of the boxes to keep the rear storage area free of wires.
04-18-2016, 08:12 PM
#17
The final project for the weekend was building the amp rack. The best place I could come up with was on the front bulkhead under the helm. I build a plywood mounting plate and pre-drilled the mounting holes for the amps and installed t-nuts onto the back. I then pre-drilled and laid out the mounting holes with t-nuts for securing the wood to the bulkhead. The little piece on the lower right side is where my distribution/fuse block will be mounted for my ground & power leads. At this time, everything is going to stay bare. I just have too much ahead of me to get this thing onto the water for the 28th. I still have to run all the wires for the stereo & speakers, finish the fabrication and install of my rear bench which isn't going to get covered either (only polyurethane treatment at this point in time), install my new starter which is on it's way, install my new batteries for the stereo, associated battery wiring and switch installation, and then re-install the rear hatch. I've got a busy weekend coming up!
t-nuts for mounting to bulkhead
t-nuts for mounting amps
crappy low light iphone pic of install
That's all for now!
t-nuts for mounting to bulkhead
t-nuts for mounting amps
crappy low light iphone pic of install
That's all for now!
05-06-2016, 09:03 PM
#19
So some feedback after having the boat on the water for a weekend.
I am thrilled with the system. The bass level is perfect. It gets as loud as I want, and hits hard and tight. I am slightly disappointed in the highs, and I'm not sure if it is because of the speakers, the amp settings, the equalizer settings or the fact that they are in an large open environment and I just need more tweeters or horns. I am going to do some research and come up with a game plan, but will probably start with some tweeters in pods up under the windshield pointed back into the passenger area. I am also going to build some baffles for behind the speakers to help direct more sound out into the passenger area as opposed to bouncing around back in the gunnels.
I don't have any pictures of the final install, but here are some additional details.
I ended up adding two group 31 Napa Marine Deep cells (part # 8231) as stand alone stereo batteries, ie, they are not connected to the alternator or any other accessories. I have two group 24 interstates on a dual battery switch for the engine, so I don't need these two batteries for any other purpose other than the stereo. The batteries are charged nightly on shore or at the marina using this dual bank battery charger plugged into a 120v source (http://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GEN2-Wate...ilpage_o02_s00).
The two new batteries are wired in parallel. I used a blue sea fuse block terminal (http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syste...ilpage_o04_s00) with a 200 amp fuse (http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syste...ilpage_o04_s00) connected right to the positive bolt to protect the positive 1/0 gauge welding wire running to the power distribution block at the amplifiers. I also ran 1/0 gauge welding wire for the ground to the distribution block. The distribution block is this unit, and works great for a 2 amplifier system (http://www.amazon.com/KnuKonceptz-KN...ilpage_o05_s00). It's compact and you can use it for both your power and ground distribution. I ran 2-gauge welding wire from the distribution block to the amps for both power and ground.
I ran a power wire from the battery to a switch on my dash that turns on all items in my system - cd player/radio/headunit, remote wire to clarion equalizer, blue tooth receiver, and remote wires to amplifiers. The load wire from the stereo switch is ran to a k4 2 circuit tab style terminal block which looks like this (http://www.k4switches.com/electrical...terminals.html), just with 2 circuits instead of 6. One circuit is the power circuit for all of the items listed above, and the other is the ground circuit with a single ground ran back to the battery.
I just spent the weekend on the lake and was able to listen all day - 6am to 4pm - as loud as I wanted and I'm sure it still had a few more hours left in it. I can't see needing any more stereo than I have, except for the highs or some additional mids on the transom or in the bow depending on my usage throughout the summer.
I am thrilled with the system. The bass level is perfect. It gets as loud as I want, and hits hard and tight. I am slightly disappointed in the highs, and I'm not sure if it is because of the speakers, the amp settings, the equalizer settings or the fact that they are in an large open environment and I just need more tweeters or horns. I am going to do some research and come up with a game plan, but will probably start with some tweeters in pods up under the windshield pointed back into the passenger area. I am also going to build some baffles for behind the speakers to help direct more sound out into the passenger area as opposed to bouncing around back in the gunnels.
I don't have any pictures of the final install, but here are some additional details.
I ended up adding two group 31 Napa Marine Deep cells (part # 8231) as stand alone stereo batteries, ie, they are not connected to the alternator or any other accessories. I have two group 24 interstates on a dual battery switch for the engine, so I don't need these two batteries for any other purpose other than the stereo. The batteries are charged nightly on shore or at the marina using this dual bank battery charger plugged into a 120v source (http://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GEN2-Wate...ilpage_o02_s00).
The two new batteries are wired in parallel. I used a blue sea fuse block terminal (http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syste...ilpage_o04_s00) with a 200 amp fuse (http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syste...ilpage_o04_s00) connected right to the positive bolt to protect the positive 1/0 gauge welding wire running to the power distribution block at the amplifiers. I also ran 1/0 gauge welding wire for the ground to the distribution block. The distribution block is this unit, and works great for a 2 amplifier system (http://www.amazon.com/KnuKonceptz-KN...ilpage_o05_s00). It's compact and you can use it for both your power and ground distribution. I ran 2-gauge welding wire from the distribution block to the amps for both power and ground.
I ran a power wire from the battery to a switch on my dash that turns on all items in my system - cd player/radio/headunit, remote wire to clarion equalizer, blue tooth receiver, and remote wires to amplifiers. The load wire from the stereo switch is ran to a k4 2 circuit tab style terminal block which looks like this (http://www.k4switches.com/electrical...terminals.html), just with 2 circuits instead of 6. One circuit is the power circuit for all of the items listed above, and the other is the ground circuit with a single ground ran back to the battery.
I just spent the weekend on the lake and was able to listen all day - 6am to 4pm - as loud as I wanted and I'm sure it still had a few more hours left in it. I can't see needing any more stereo than I have, except for the highs or some additional mids on the transom or in the bow depending on my usage throughout the summer.
05-10-2016, 11:59 AM
#20
Registered
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One thing to keep in mind is that as frequencies increase, they become much more directional. With subwoofer frequencies below around 80hz, they're non-directional but once you start approaching midrange and high frequencies, being off-axis will seriously impact volume and clarity.
You might take a look at where you are sitting when listening to the system and place speakers accordingly.
For this reason, I've chosen to mount a speaker in my dash and one in front of the passenger bolster firing directly at the front seats. These will be wired to the front channels of my amp so I can fade it to front when underway in the boat. Having the speakers firing from the side of the boat, as most installs on boats do, you lose a lot of sound.
Then I'll have speakers in the transom of the boat on the rear channels and can fade back to those when in the water behind the boat. That way the speakers are firing directly at the listener. To me, it makes a lot more sense than just throwing dozens of speakers placed in the sides of the boat and boatloads of power at them so that you can get loud enough to overcome being way off-axis.
You might take a look at where you are sitting when listening to the system and place speakers accordingly.
For this reason, I've chosen to mount a speaker in my dash and one in front of the passenger bolster firing directly at the front seats. These will be wired to the front channels of my amp so I can fade it to front when underway in the boat. Having the speakers firing from the side of the boat, as most installs on boats do, you lose a lot of sound.
Then I'll have speakers in the transom of the boat on the rear channels and can fade back to those when in the water behind the boat. That way the speakers are firing directly at the listener. To me, it makes a lot more sense than just throwing dozens of speakers placed in the sides of the boat and boatloads of power at them so that you can get loud enough to overcome being way off-axis.
