Challenger 21
10-19-2005, 10:04 PM
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Challenger 21
Hi my name is Jay ,anyone have any original Challenger 21's.Im restoring mine and would like to see every picture possible.Im interested in knowing specs, engine combo's,set back ect....I have a 1979 challenger 21 with 235 johnson.Im restoring it myself stripped all the paint someone sprayed on it over the gelcoat.Im actually gonna re gelcoat the whole exterior.I took the bomar hatch out of the bow dont ask me why and they set it off to the port side.It has most of the teak as well as bow stiffener,and stainless wrap around rail.If anyone owns a challenger 21,Team Shadow,Superboat, or any other knock offs of this hull let me know.Im at the jersey shore and hope to have this project completed for spring of 06.Three of my friends have Shadows.Anyone at the jersey shore have a challenger????? Email me with pics to [email protected]
10-20-2005, 08:57 PM
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Re: Challenger 21
Jay,
I read that you want to re gel the Challenger. Don't do it !! Have it re painted with a Quality paint , such as Imron . Check out their coler chart. Hundreds of colors , they also have metalics.
Besides a gelcoat finish can't hold a candle to a professional Imron job.
Rick
I read that you want to re gel the Challenger. Don't do it !! Have it re painted with a Quality paint , such as Imron . Check out their coler chart. Hundreds of colors , they also have metalics.
Besides a gelcoat finish can't hold a candle to a professional Imron job.
Rick
10-21-2005, 07:32 PM
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Re: Challenger 21
I disagree, while paint is great, nothing is more durable on a boat than gelcoat. ONce you paint a boat it very hard to go back.
Properly applied modern gelcoat should shine like Emron, there are almost as many colors and you can do gelcoat in metallic too.
I do both at my shop as well as many other paint products. The main reason people paint thier boats is cost and graphic design. Because gel is so labor intensive it's very expensive and not as friendly to complex graphics.
Properly applied modern gelcoat should shine like Emron, there are almost as many colors and you can do gelcoat in metallic too.
I do both at my shop as well as many other paint products. The main reason people paint thier boats is cost and graphic design. Because gel is so labor intensive it's very expensive and not as friendly to complex graphics.
10-21-2005, 08:22 PM
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Re: Challenger 21
Catagory 5,
I agree and disagree with you on a few things. First of all, yes, the new top of the line gels these days from Cook Composits are quite durable. And you can do Metalics with gel.
We are referring to a 21' Challenger. You say you have a shop, and do paint and gel jobs. So do I. I manage Superboats, and have been building and repairing boats for over 30 years. I am also a Marine Surveyor.
To properly re-gel the Challenger, first all the previous paint must be removed (very labor intensive. $$$ ) prior to new new gel being applied. I don't know what you charge, but a job like that would exceed the value of the boat. Agreed ??
The boat is already painted. To repaint it would take minimal labor ( $$$) compared to gel. As far a gel being more durable the Imron (not emron). It's not. Gel is thicker then Imron.
Now lets get into the Oxidation aspect of Gelcoat verses Imron. At Superboat we offer a option of clearcoating the topside with Imron. Why ? Because of Oxidation. Imron doesn't oxidize. After 10 years stripes on your deck are still their bright colors, instead of faded, chalky gelcoat. 2 weeks ago I did a couple of clear coat touch ups on a 12 year old 21' at our shop. All the blue stripes still looked new. They wouldn't look like that if they were plain gelcoat.
I try to steer customers away from re-gelcoating mainly because of that factor.
Rick
I agree and disagree with you on a few things. First of all, yes, the new top of the line gels these days from Cook Composits are quite durable. And you can do Metalics with gel.
We are referring to a 21' Challenger. You say you have a shop, and do paint and gel jobs. So do I. I manage Superboats, and have been building and repairing boats for over 30 years. I am also a Marine Surveyor.
To properly re-gel the Challenger, first all the previous paint must be removed (very labor intensive. $$$ ) prior to new new gel being applied. I don't know what you charge, but a job like that would exceed the value of the boat. Agreed ??
The boat is already painted. To repaint it would take minimal labor ( $$$) compared to gel. As far a gel being more durable the Imron (not emron). It's not. Gel is thicker then Imron.
Now lets get into the Oxidation aspect of Gelcoat verses Imron. At Superboat we offer a option of clearcoating the topside with Imron. Why ? Because of Oxidation. Imron doesn't oxidize. After 10 years stripes on your deck are still their bright colors, instead of faded, chalky gelcoat. 2 weeks ago I did a couple of clear coat touch ups on a 12 year old 21' at our shop. All the blue stripes still looked new. They wouldn't look like that if they were plain gelcoat.
I try to steer customers away from re-gelcoating mainly because of that factor.
Rick
10-21-2005, 10:40 PM
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Re: Challenger 21
FX10
Without this becomming a pi$$ing match. 1.Sorry aboutt he typo <Emron,Imron>. 2. The origional poster says in his post he has ALREADY removed the old paint. 3. It's his sweat into his own project so it can't be compaired to having it done professionally cost wise. If he wants to spend weekend after weekend sanding it doesn't cost him any more. 4. Don't most restorations exceed the value of the boat?
I completely agree with the UV stability issue. However the newer gelcoats have much better UV qualities than they did 30 years ago, or even 10. So i guess we'll have to wait another 10 years to see how they look. But I just finished a 1967 Sidewinder that was origional green/black/silver metal flake gelcoat and it looks great. The floor, transom, stringer and interior were another story!!!!
We not long ago finished a black Imron hull on a fishing boat at the customers request. Looked like a black mirror but not sure how it will look after several seasons of bouncing lead sinkers off the sides. That's what i was referring to as durability, not the oxidization.
If I was doing a small boat for ME and had to redo the HULL in a single color I would do it in gelcoat and paint any graphics over the base of gelcoat. But i guess that's why there are 4million different products, one for each opinion.
By the way, i've always been a fan of Superboats, nicely constructed boats.
Jim
Without this becomming a pi$$ing match. 1.Sorry aboutt he typo <Emron,Imron>. 2. The origional poster says in his post he has ALREADY removed the old paint. 3. It's his sweat into his own project so it can't be compaired to having it done professionally cost wise. If he wants to spend weekend after weekend sanding it doesn't cost him any more. 4. Don't most restorations exceed the value of the boat?
I completely agree with the UV stability issue. However the newer gelcoats have much better UV qualities than they did 30 years ago, or even 10. So i guess we'll have to wait another 10 years to see how they look. But I just finished a 1967 Sidewinder that was origional green/black/silver metal flake gelcoat and it looks great. The floor, transom, stringer and interior were another story!!!!
We not long ago finished a black Imron hull on a fishing boat at the customers request. Looked like a black mirror but not sure how it will look after several seasons of bouncing lead sinkers off the sides. That's what i was referring to as durability, not the oxidization.
If I was doing a small boat for ME and had to redo the HULL in a single color I would do it in gelcoat and paint any graphics over the base of gelcoat. But i guess that's why there are 4million different products, one for each opinion.
By the way, i've always been a fan of Superboats, nicely constructed boats.
Jim
10-22-2005, 12:02 AM
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Re: Challenger 21
When a boat like this one comes to my shop, my normal recomendation is to repair the very bottom of the boat (if needed) with gel, and paint from the chine up with a good quality paint. I believe that (with reasonable care) the paint will be more durable in the long run. However it does not hold up as well on the very bottom of the boat when it is constantly loaded onto a trailer. It will not with stand the weight of the intire boat sliding off and on the trailer as well as the gelcoat will. It will start showing scratches alot quicker if it is painted. This recommendation would not pertain to someone that liked to store their boat in the water for extended periods of time (without a lift) though. Paint is more prone to blister sooner than gel. If this were the case, I would recommend gelcoat to the rubrail and paint on the top. I would never recommend gelcoat on the top! It will not hold up to the UV rays from the sun!!!!! The bottom line is, there is not a ( one size fits all ) solution to everyones boating needs. Both paint and gelcoat have their points in which they accell. Alot of times the best solution is a combination of both, letting each product to do what it does best, to achieve the ultimate job to fit both budget and needs of the customer!! So, I guess I agree and disagree with both of you, but this is just my opinion and how I do things. You both have very valid points!!! If I had to recommend one or the other to an inexperienced (do it yourselfer) I would have to point them toward the paint. I think it is more managable and forgiving than the gelcoat, and also easier to repair mistakes! (BTW) This is not my first rodeo either!! David
Last edited by customtouch; 10-22-2005 at 12:15 AM.
10-22-2005, 09:11 AM
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Re: Challenger 21
Well said David, I should have mentioned that I wouldn't Imron the bottom of the hull ( chine down ) because of the blistering factor. Imron isn't recomended for below the waterline.
Rick
Rick
10-30-2005, 12:15 AM
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Re: Challenger 21
Originally Posted by customtouch
When a boat like this one comes to my shop, my normal recomendation is to repair the very bottom of the boat (if needed) with gel, and paint from the chine up with a good quality paint. I believe that (with reasonable care) the paint will be more durable in the long run. However it does not hold up as well on the very bottom of the boat when it is constantly loaded onto a trailer. It will not with stand the weight of the intire boat sliding off and on the trailer as well as the gelcoat will. It will start showing scratches alot quicker if it is painted. This recommendation would not pertain to someone that liked to store their boat in the water for extended periods of time (without a lift) though. Paint is more prone to blister sooner than gel. If this were the case, I would recommend gelcoat to the rubrail and paint on the top. I would never recommend gelcoat on the top! It will not hold up to the UV rays from the sun!!!!! The bottom line is, there is not a ( one size fits all ) solution to everyones boating needs. Both paint and gelcoat have their points in which they accell. Alot of times the best solution is a combination of both, letting each product to do what it does best, to achieve the ultimate job to fit both budget and needs of the customer!! So, I guess I agree and disagree with both of you, but this is just my opinion and how I do things. You both have very valid points!!! If I had to recommend one or the other to an inexperienced (do it yourselfer) I would have to point them toward the paint. I think it is more managable and forgiving than the gelcoat, and also easier to repair mistakes! (BTW) This is not my first rodeo either!! David
That seems like the plan i may be going after boys... Paint on the topside and gel on the sides. The bottom is gonna stay original white gel.Thank you all for helping you all posted some pretty good questions as well as answers.
06-22-2020, 08:52 PM
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All original 1977 Challenger found
found in a barn in Wisconsin. Original owners and purchasers . I bought her to live her life with my family now .
a real time capsule
Original interior is flawless
a real time capsule
Original interior is flawless
