Decision time. MoPower
08-04-2023, 11:12 AM
#11
Registered
Thread Starter
well said! I have nothing against the OB crowd either. But with the current world we are now in, throwing 40-50 grand into an otherwise great boat starts making more sense compared to what new costs. not to mention, very few traditional go fast choices available under 38. Solid hull and reliable propulsion is everything.
I understand where you are at, I am getting close with almost 800 hours on my HP500EFI's.
Granted a bit newer boat but still old. The issue is when we talk about performance V's almost all are old very few made after 2009, that means 14 years old at least. I have no issue with NEW OB's but those are all cats and CC's (Have no desire for a CC), and $$$$$$$$$$$.
I was at a boat show about a month ago, 125K for a 18 foot flats boat with a 90HP on it and only the one little seat. 22 something with a 150 was $225K!
I looked at my wife and said repowering ours doesn't sound so bad now does it?
Granted a bit newer boat but still old. The issue is when we talk about performance V's almost all are old very few made after 2009, that means 14 years old at least. I have no issue with NEW OB's but those are all cats and CC's (Have no desire for a CC), and $$$$$$$$$$$.
I was at a boat show about a month ago, 125K for a 18 foot flats boat with a 90HP on it and only the one little seat. 22 something with a 150 was $225K!
I looked at my wife and said repowering ours doesn't sound so bad now does it?
The following 2 users liked this post by Formula_272_SR1:
1983ScarabIII (08-04-2023), TomZ (08-04-2023)
08-04-2023, 11:12 AM
#12
Registered
I totally get it and realize I’m also holding out as the whole industry shifts to outboard everything. Still in the camp that while some EV’s & 6 banger sports cars could outperform my 69 Camaro, I know which one I still prefer. Lol. Part of a dying breed holding onto yesterday. You are right, know financially it makes zero sense.
The following 2 users liked this post by 1983ScarabIII:
Craney (11-04-2023), Formula_272_SR1 (08-04-2023)
08-04-2023, 11:17 AM
#13
Registered
Thread Starter
Thanks Tom. Really appreciate the encouragement. I literally just had a similar conversation with my wife. We know this boat. Buying newer sounds good until you discover what?
Only fear I have is once the motors are out, did the platform compromise the transom? The aft bulkhead was already rebuilt during the refit/tank change which is a known weakness. No concerns there, the work done is better than factory.
Only fear I have is once the motors are out, did the platform compromise the transom? The aft bulkhead was already rebuilt during the refit/tank change which is a known weakness. No concerns there, the work done is better than factory.
The price of the newer boats is ridiculous in a lot of cases. I just looked at Boat Trader for 353's - you're looking at a buy-in of at least $50k - what new problems will one of these come with? Ones worth really looking at are north of $90k.
The biggest concern with these boats is the inner structure around the tank - if that's all been taken care of correctly and you've taken care to make sure these problems didn't creep back in, there's no reason not to keep your 272 going. Setup correctly, 600 HP in that boat will run into the 80s but you'll hit a wall without doing bottom work or raising the drive. Will it do it as efficiently as a newer stepped hull? No, but it'll still be fun, and it'll still be faster than most other boats that you're likely to encounter on the water.
Cubic inches win. Anything 502-based with good heads will get you where you need to be. A 540 would do it at a lower RPM compared to a 502.
A refresh of what you have and superchargers will get you what you need pretty easily (there's a 311 on fb running in the 90's with 496s and TBS 250s and XRs). Superchargers could get you 650 HP without evening trying!
Look at posts from Endeavor32 - he did a lot with his 292. The 272 and 292 are pretty similar.
Interested in seeing this come together!
The biggest concern with these boats is the inner structure around the tank - if that's all been taken care of correctly and you've taken care to make sure these problems didn't creep back in, there's no reason not to keep your 272 going. Setup correctly, 600 HP in that boat will run into the 80s but you'll hit a wall without doing bottom work or raising the drive. Will it do it as efficiently as a newer stepped hull? No, but it'll still be fun, and it'll still be faster than most other boats that you're likely to encounter on the water.
Cubic inches win. Anything 502-based with good heads will get you where you need to be. A 540 would do it at a lower RPM compared to a 502.
A refresh of what you have and superchargers will get you what you need pretty easily (there's a 311 on fb running in the 90's with 496s and TBS 250s and XRs). Superchargers could get you 650 HP without evening trying!
Look at posts from Endeavor32 - he did a lot with his 292. The 272 and 292 are pretty similar.
Interested in seeing this come together!
Last edited by Formula_272_SR1; 08-04-2023 at 11:21 AM.
The following users liked this post:
TomZ (08-04-2023)
08-04-2023, 11:24 AM
#14
Registered
Now that interest rates are high again, anything new is now REALLY getting out of reach for most non-cash buyers. I'm pretty sure six figure loans on used hardware is impossible to get without giving up your left nut.
The high performance V used market inventory is healthy right now if you have cash. But with no builders making them anymore you have a limited time to grab the cherry picked stuff.
The more time that goes on, you have to consider moisture, old gas tanks, aging wiring, out dated electrics, parts availability, etc.
Just a matter of time before classic boats shows will have 90's and early 2000's entries. Bummer.
The high performance V used market inventory is healthy right now if you have cash. But with no builders making them anymore you have a limited time to grab the cherry picked stuff.
The more time that goes on, you have to consider moisture, old gas tanks, aging wiring, out dated electrics, parts availability, etc.
Just a matter of time before classic boats shows will have 90's and early 2000's entries. Bummer.
The following 2 users liked this post by techman:
1983ScarabIII (08-05-2023), TomZ (08-04-2023)
08-06-2023, 05:05 PM
#15
VIP Member
VIP Member
Do whatever you want. Enjoy the process. That journey can be just as fun as the end result.
__________________
Formula 353
Merc Racing 540s
Formula 353
Merc Racing 540s
The following 2 users liked this post by DRAG:
PQ290Enticer (11-05-2023), SecondWind (12-21-2023)
08-07-2023, 05:26 AM
#16
Registered
After a few years of going back and forth, I’ve made the decision to repower the old girl again. The years keep moving by and the 2009 rebuild/refit is getting more tired each year. What was a low 70’s boat, 525hp a side, is now a 64 mph boat. Slowing down in her old age back to stock specs. lol
Was kinda holding out thinking I’d find a nice deal on a 311(missed that beautiful example a few weeks ago) or maybe a 353. Just hasn’t happened and my short season is coming to an end. Time to start thinking about next year.
The here and now, engines are scheduled to be pulled in a few short weeks on my 88 272. Will do some cleanup and lots of “while I’m there stuff” over the winter. Engine install will be in the spring.
Replacement goals are lots of torque, torque/hp 650+. Must be super reliable engines. Space is beyond tight in the engine compartment. Low maintenance. Also plan on moving to crank mounted pumps due to the tight space!
Guessing this should push the old girl into the low/mid 80’s. Probably will be ditching the silent thunder platform and adding a Mayfair steering setup. Like the look of the platform. Risks to transom and weight seem to be guiding me towards replacement(in beautiful shape tho).
I recognize I’ll never see all the $$ back on resale. Not really the point but do have to consider while throwing $$ at this old bird.
Looking for opinions as many have gone down this road before.
Are my Expectations reasonable?
Anyone have any pitfalls stories to share/think about while doing something similar?
Finally, while researching power options, it’s hard to ignore Blueprint engines. Lots of bang for the buck. Brand new components in a dynod package. Their 540 looks super interesting. See some good threads on OSO. Any other experience out there? Not even sure I could rebuild mine and obtain similar results for the value they offer.
Do have a WTB post up to see if the right engines might be out there somewhere also.
A bit of several thoughts in this one thread but isn’t that how projects go. Lol. appreciate the feedback.
Was kinda holding out thinking I’d find a nice deal on a 311(missed that beautiful example a few weeks ago) or maybe a 353. Just hasn’t happened and my short season is coming to an end. Time to start thinking about next year.
The here and now, engines are scheduled to be pulled in a few short weeks on my 88 272. Will do some cleanup and lots of “while I’m there stuff” over the winter. Engine install will be in the spring.
Replacement goals are lots of torque, torque/hp 650+. Must be super reliable engines. Space is beyond tight in the engine compartment. Low maintenance. Also plan on moving to crank mounted pumps due to the tight space!
Guessing this should push the old girl into the low/mid 80’s. Probably will be ditching the silent thunder platform and adding a Mayfair steering setup. Like the look of the platform. Risks to transom and weight seem to be guiding me towards replacement(in beautiful shape tho).
I recognize I’ll never see all the $$ back on resale. Not really the point but do have to consider while throwing $$ at this old bird.
Looking for opinions as many have gone down this road before.
Are my Expectations reasonable?
Anyone have any pitfalls stories to share/think about while doing something similar?
Finally, while researching power options, it’s hard to ignore Blueprint engines. Lots of bang for the buck. Brand new components in a dynod package. Their 540 looks super interesting. See some good threads on OSO. Any other experience out there? Not even sure I could rebuild mine and obtain similar results for the value they offer.
Do have a WTB post up to see if the right engines might be out there somewhere also.
A bit of several thoughts in this one thread but isn’t that how projects go. Lol. appreciate the feedback.
10-02-2023, 06:59 PM
#17
Registered
Thread Starter
I sincerely appreciate all the PM’s and comments from this thread. Anyone interested, figured I’d give a brief update. Project is well underway!
After pulling the existing engines, was super happy with what I found both with the structure and the “mystery engines”. The engines were packed with quality stuff, 4 bolt mains, forged rods/crank/pistons. GM high performance heads, etc. lots of LS6 components.
While I got a few good leads on new power, I ultimately decided to build what I wanted despite these engines being in great shape other than being tired. Most likely, I’ll have them freshened up and sell at a later point. Just felt I’d be pushing these motors excessively hard to achieve the goals.
So I settled on a builder and final specs today. The order is in….The new power will be 555 Darts. Fully dyno tuned and broken in. Lots of goodies, all name brand stuff. Min power will be 650hp and torque above 700 all delivered by 5400/5600. Should make the old girl fly. Certainly will share official dyno results later this year when completed.
Next couple of months will be all the “while I’m there stuff”. Key upgrades will include adding external steering and maybe XR’s vs the Bravo 1’s. Already have HP assemblies installed from the prior refit. Would also like to see about swapping out the swim platform.
Lots of the final list hinges on finding some great deals since this already makes zero financial sense. lol.
Again, appreciate all the terrific feedback. Should you have any tips, please feel free to share.
If you happen to have super clean used stuff for sale, please PM me. Hope everyone had a great summer. Looking forward to the 24 season.
After pulling the existing engines, was super happy with what I found both with the structure and the “mystery engines”. The engines were packed with quality stuff, 4 bolt mains, forged rods/crank/pistons. GM high performance heads, etc. lots of LS6 components.
While I got a few good leads on new power, I ultimately decided to build what I wanted despite these engines being in great shape other than being tired. Most likely, I’ll have them freshened up and sell at a later point. Just felt I’d be pushing these motors excessively hard to achieve the goals.
So I settled on a builder and final specs today. The order is in….The new power will be 555 Darts. Fully dyno tuned and broken in. Lots of goodies, all name brand stuff. Min power will be 650hp and torque above 700 all delivered by 5400/5600. Should make the old girl fly. Certainly will share official dyno results later this year when completed.
Next couple of months will be all the “while I’m there stuff”. Key upgrades will include adding external steering and maybe XR’s vs the Bravo 1’s. Already have HP assemblies installed from the prior refit. Would also like to see about swapping out the swim platform.
Lots of the final list hinges on finding some great deals since this already makes zero financial sense. lol.
Again, appreciate all the terrific feedback. Should you have any tips, please feel free to share.
If you happen to have super clean used stuff for sale, please PM me. Hope everyone had a great summer. Looking forward to the 24 season.
Last edited by Formula_272_SR1; 10-02-2023 at 07:02 PM.
The following users liked this post:
masi242 (10-10-2023)
11-04-2023, 09:36 PM
#18
Registered
Thread Starter
Update
Wanted to say thanks to all that gave thoughts both publicly and thru PM’s. Pushing forward with the project. Last couple of months have been busy.
Engines are out and swim platform is off. Other than a few spider cracks, looks like will have minimal glass work on the transom and no rot to deal with!
Engine bay cleanup started and the swim platform is off. My list is exploding with “while I’m there stuff”
New engine build is underway. 555 Darts, 9.8 deck height. This will enable me to reuse my stainless marine exhaust. Spent more than I planned for engines but focused on quality components and a builder I felt super comfortable with.
They should really wake this old girl up. Builder expects min of 650HP and 700+ torque in by 5500. Not sure if my 27 Mirages are going to work?? Think it’s reasonable I’ll be in the upper 80’s based on results shared on OSO by others.
For drives, Have clean X’s coming. Most likely, will find a set of XR lowers. Already have the HP transom assemblies from the first refit. Just didn’t want to put this much power thru B1’s and didn’t want to invite XR upper maintenance into my life.
Debating on a custom swim platform or finding a used one to powder coat. Time will tell…….seems like a good place I could save a few bucks.
Also got a deal on a full hydraulic Imco steering setup. Should be a huge upgrade and necessary for the new found power/speed.
Just wanted to drop in and share an update. Back to my nightly activity of searching for parts.
PS, if anyone has used/new windshield screw covers available, please let me know. This is the one unicorn I can’t seem to get my hands on yet.
Engines are out and swim platform is off. Other than a few spider cracks, looks like will have minimal glass work on the transom and no rot to deal with!
Engine bay cleanup started and the swim platform is off. My list is exploding with “while I’m there stuff”
New engine build is underway. 555 Darts, 9.8 deck height. This will enable me to reuse my stainless marine exhaust. Spent more than I planned for engines but focused on quality components and a builder I felt super comfortable with.
They should really wake this old girl up. Builder expects min of 650HP and 700+ torque in by 5500. Not sure if my 27 Mirages are going to work?? Think it’s reasonable I’ll be in the upper 80’s based on results shared on OSO by others.
For drives, Have clean X’s coming. Most likely, will find a set of XR lowers. Already have the HP transom assemblies from the first refit. Just didn’t want to put this much power thru B1’s and didn’t want to invite XR upper maintenance into my life.
Debating on a custom swim platform or finding a used one to powder coat. Time will tell…….seems like a good place I could save a few bucks.
Also got a deal on a full hydraulic Imco steering setup. Should be a huge upgrade and necessary for the new found power/speed.
Just wanted to drop in and share an update. Back to my nightly activity of searching for parts.
PS, if anyone has used/new windshield screw covers available, please let me know. This is the one unicorn I can’t seem to get my hands on yet.
Last edited by Formula_272_SR1; 11-04-2023 at 09:42 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Formula_272_SR1:
PQ290Enticer (11-22-2023), TomZ (11-05-2023)
11-05-2023, 12:13 AM
#19
BEACH PARTY
Platinum Member
Lot of power for that boat! Make sure you so steering; it’ll be dangerous without it.
This would also be a good time to make sure the transom assembly and gimbal ring are sound. We put in lightly used HP transom assemblies in the Cigarette. In the end it was cheaper than rebuilding.
Looking forward to how she comes together!
This would also be a good time to make sure the transom assembly and gimbal ring are sound. We put in lightly used HP transom assemblies in the Cigarette. In the end it was cheaper than rebuilding.
Looking forward to how she comes together!
11-22-2023, 12:54 PM
#20
Registered
I'm in the same boat as you and thinking about the same exact thing. I've got 250 hours on my 525efi and honestly I'm pretty sick of dealing with it. It's the most fickle marine motor I've ever had. I know lots of guys love them but I'm just not happy with it. Biggest complaint is the lack of low end torque. It's really hard to find props that perform well with it as it needs a lot of slip to get past 3k rpm where the power is at. I've upgraded the top end and it still has great compression. I want a strong tough engine that i don't need to baby all the time. Maybe that's not realistic. I'm looking really hard at the Blueprint engines as well but hardly ever see any reviews from ones used in offshore boats.
