Expensive weekend!
09-08-2004, 05:47 AM
#11
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Re: Expensive weekend!
Looking at the pics I'd say that sucker was cracked for quite a while before complete failure.
The darker area is, I believe, discoloration from water intrusion.
A small surface crack develops, water seeps in. As the crack grows more water gets in. Since the point of entry is on the high pressure side the water was forced in as the prop spun.
The blade was undoubtedly flexing too.
Just my opinion and .02
The darker area is, I believe, discoloration from water intrusion.
A small surface crack develops, water seeps in. As the crack grows more water gets in. Since the point of entry is on the high pressure side the water was forced in as the prop spun.
The blade was undoubtedly flexing too.
Just my opinion and .02
Last edited by Iggy; 09-08-2004 at 05:51 AM.
09-08-2004, 05:59 AM
#12
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Re: Expensive weekend!
alj
Looks real familiar. My Kamma prop looked the same way. Discolored metals throughout the break. On the plus side the boat looks great!
You have plenty of good weather left to get that thing dialed in. Call Earl @ Lanier Marine he will have you running by this weekend. 954-922-6110.
Josh
Looks real familiar. My Kamma prop looked the same way. Discolored metals throughout the break. On the plus side the boat looks great!
You have plenty of good weather left to get that thing dialed in. Call Earl @ Lanier Marine he will have you running by this weekend. 954-922-6110.
Josh
09-08-2004, 09:44 AM
#13
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Re: Expensive weekend!
Morning guys,
Thanks for signing onto the thread! Cuda, I think Formula changed to the three blade 17 x 24 Mercury props on the larger boats or at least on the lower H.P. engine packages. I believe my boat originally had these props with the Hardin 375 hp engines. Not sure, but a F402 KAAMA I looked at in Vegas had these props on a 330HP engine package (talk about a pup) and that F402 KAAMA that Andrew owns in Washington State also has these props. The Washington State boat is the blue one named Wavewalker or something. Ron's F302 KAAMA also had them although he also had a set of four blade long hubs. Not sure if his four blades are compu-techs though.
So now the big question....what pitch and diameter to run! Definitely want to go with four blades. Compu-techs (with the same hub outside diameter as the case for hydrodynamics) are so few and far between that i'll stick to looking at SSM props. Josh, I looked at the ratios. The tranny has the 1.54 ratio. I'm confused on the drives. They show the serial number and then for ratio it shows " +8 ". Not sure what that is. Does anybody know what it means? I remember a post by andrew in Washington State and he had the same trannie ratio and listed his drive at 1:1: something or other. I'll look it up. I've got a chance to test a pair of SSM small shaft 16 x 27 four blade - 6" hub. I believe they started as 17 x 27 but have been labbed by merc a few times to the smaller diameter. The guy can't use them because he can't get the boat on plane. That concerns me a little since I don't know the rake on these props, but then, I can at least try them before buying. He has an 80's vintage Cougar V-hull around a 35 footer. He is running 850 H.P. big blocks that were originally on SSM3 drives and they couldn't get it dialed in. He got aggravated by prop availability and switched to #5's. Still won't plane off. Talk about lighting thousand dollar bills on fire! Still it scares me that he couldn't plane up on 27 pitch props with that H.P. Anyone know what a "Delron Rake" is? Well my understanding is they can take out diameter when they lab props to help increase top RPM but the pitch you live with. What else do I need to know?
Hey Iggy, don't you have a F206? Have I ever seen a photo of it here. I have a 1987 F206 that I bought new. It still remains my favorite. 18 years and going. Only thing I did was come up with an excuse to my now ex-wife that the 350 mag was blown and it needed a new engine. In goes the ZZ4 crate motor that I marinized. Ron swears that that boat only rides on the alpha drives cavitation plate when I'm behind the wheel. I'll post a photo if I can find one.
Josh, what did Houston Prop charge you for their lab services? I've been told that Mercury charges $1000 per prop per visit. That info came from a marina though so I'm not sure of the bull**** factor there.
Thanks for signing onto the thread! Cuda, I think Formula changed to the three blade 17 x 24 Mercury props on the larger boats or at least on the lower H.P. engine packages. I believe my boat originally had these props with the Hardin 375 hp engines. Not sure, but a F402 KAAMA I looked at in Vegas had these props on a 330HP engine package (talk about a pup) and that F402 KAAMA that Andrew owns in Washington State also has these props. The Washington State boat is the blue one named Wavewalker or something. Ron's F302 KAAMA also had them although he also had a set of four blade long hubs. Not sure if his four blades are compu-techs though.
So now the big question....what pitch and diameter to run! Definitely want to go with four blades. Compu-techs (with the same hub outside diameter as the case for hydrodynamics) are so few and far between that i'll stick to looking at SSM props. Josh, I looked at the ratios. The tranny has the 1.54 ratio. I'm confused on the drives. They show the serial number and then for ratio it shows " +8 ". Not sure what that is. Does anybody know what it means? I remember a post by andrew in Washington State and he had the same trannie ratio and listed his drive at 1:1: something or other. I'll look it up. I've got a chance to test a pair of SSM small shaft 16 x 27 four blade - 6" hub. I believe they started as 17 x 27 but have been labbed by merc a few times to the smaller diameter. The guy can't use them because he can't get the boat on plane. That concerns me a little since I don't know the rake on these props, but then, I can at least try them before buying. He has an 80's vintage Cougar V-hull around a 35 footer. He is running 850 H.P. big blocks that were originally on SSM3 drives and they couldn't get it dialed in. He got aggravated by prop availability and switched to #5's. Still won't plane off. Talk about lighting thousand dollar bills on fire! Still it scares me that he couldn't plane up on 27 pitch props with that H.P. Anyone know what a "Delron Rake" is? Well my understanding is they can take out diameter when they lab props to help increase top RPM but the pitch you live with. What else do I need to know?
Hey Iggy, don't you have a F206? Have I ever seen a photo of it here. I have a 1987 F206 that I bought new. It still remains my favorite. 18 years and going. Only thing I did was come up with an excuse to my now ex-wife that the 350 mag was blown and it needed a new engine. In goes the ZZ4 crate motor that I marinized. Ron swears that that boat only rides on the alpha drives cavitation plate when I'm behind the wheel. I'll post a photo if I can find one.
Josh, what did Houston Prop charge you for their lab services? I've been told that Mercury charges $1000 per prop per visit. That info came from a marina though so I'm not sure of the bull**** factor there.
09-08-2004, 11:13 AM
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Re: Expensive weekend!
alj
Houston prop 500.00 per wheel labbed and polished. Best money I ever spent. I also am real interested in the 16" x 27p props you are going to try. That sounds like a decent set up. I liked the larger diameter ssm though, it gave me some stern lift. Boat felt lighter, not so azz heavy. My set up is 1.54 ratio on trannies and 1-1 on drives. Probably the same thing you have. Keep us posted!
Josh
Houston prop 500.00 per wheel labbed and polished. Best money I ever spent. I also am real interested in the 16" x 27p props you are going to try. That sounds like a decent set up. I liked the larger diameter ssm though, it gave me some stern lift. Boat felt lighter, not so azz heavy. My set up is 1.54 ratio on trannies and 1-1 on drives. Probably the same thing you have. Keep us posted!
Josh
09-08-2004, 02:49 PM
#15
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Re: Expensive weekend!
You can see pics of my F-206 here.... http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=50864
09-08-2004, 07:51 PM
#17
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Re: Expensive weekend!
OK here's the latest on the prop saga..... Oh BTW nice 206 Iggy from Kissimmee, I'll find a pic of my 206. Looks like that's the one going on the water this weekend. OK, dropped the 402 in an hour and a half ago with these 16 x 27 four blades. They are merc 6" hub. Barely made it on plane and that was with full plates and drives buried. Once up it didn't want to make any RPM. Pushed to the wall and it creeped up to maybe 3800 or 3900 rpm and the old nordskog speedo only showed 40 mph. Didn't want to push it here so I backed out of it. Tried a takeoff again and it just didn't want to go. Too much throttle and the props just spin out. Hold it at 3000rpm and go down below for a nap while it tries to come on plane. Guy at the marina tells me merc can take two inches of PITCH out of these suckers and maybe reduce the diameter to 15" to make them 15 x 25's. I'm thinking "are you nuts dude?" Diameter....yes; two inches off the pitch...Yikes. I'm thinkin when there done we could use them as BBQ skeewers or something. Can they do that kind of work on a prop?
Alright, everyone put their thinking caps on for me. God knows I need all the help I can get. With the original 3 blade, 4" hub, 17 x 24 cleavers this 11000lb boat comes out of the hole like my 3500lb 375 HP F206! However, with blades turning in, RPM is limited to about 4200 to 4300 rpm and I'm getting 52 mph. Oh and the blades fly off those suckers (minor problem). Now I have the 1.54 ratio trans but the only thing on the drive ratio is the secret code that KAAMA came up with to communicate with aliens or something. WHAT IS A " +8" DRIVE RATIO?? Alright, I'm pushing a lot of weight but HP is way up - 600 + at the crank but thats in the 5500RPM range. Any one have any ideas? I'm thinking 6" hub for the strength. Four blades for the holeshot. 16 or 16.5 diameter to help increase rpm. 25 pitch or less because thats what it seems it likes.... probably even 24 pitch. That doesn't seem like much in the pitch department especially if I want any speed out of this tank but if I can get the rpm into the low 5000 range it might make up for it. Can they really get a 27 pitch prop down to 25? Seems like that would be an expensive experiment. Anyone have any experience with this? ( i know - call the prop guys....but I luv you guys)
Well that's whats happening. And just remember that none of your props are safe tonight!!!!! Talk later ........Al
Alright, everyone put their thinking caps on for me. God knows I need all the help I can get. With the original 3 blade, 4" hub, 17 x 24 cleavers this 11000lb boat comes out of the hole like my 3500lb 375 HP F206! However, with blades turning in, RPM is limited to about 4200 to 4300 rpm and I'm getting 52 mph. Oh and the blades fly off those suckers (minor problem). Now I have the 1.54 ratio trans but the only thing on the drive ratio is the secret code that KAAMA came up with to communicate with aliens or something. WHAT IS A " +8" DRIVE RATIO?? Alright, I'm pushing a lot of weight but HP is way up - 600 + at the crank but thats in the 5500RPM range. Any one have any ideas? I'm thinking 6" hub for the strength. Four blades for the holeshot. 16 or 16.5 diameter to help increase rpm. 25 pitch or less because thats what it seems it likes.... probably even 24 pitch. That doesn't seem like much in the pitch department especially if I want any speed out of this tank but if I can get the rpm into the low 5000 range it might make up for it. Can they really get a 27 pitch prop down to 25? Seems like that would be an expensive experiment. Anyone have any experience with this? ( i know - call the prop guys....but I luv you guys)
Well that's whats happening. And just remember that none of your props are safe tonight!!!!! Talk later ........Al
09-08-2004, 08:02 PM
#18
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Re: Expensive weekend!
Oh BTW .....hi Brent. Sense of humor?????? naw thats long gone. Doctors now have concluded that it's a massive case of paranoid scitzoid mania or something. I actually approach each day believing that something on the boat is going to blow up. Makes it much easier when those dreams actually do come true. Yours can too!!!! Just make me an offer on this baby. And then all your dreams will come true too!!!! You will all soon understand when I post a picture of the boat with it's name on it. Later guys
09-09-2004, 12:51 AM
#19
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Re: Expensive weekend!
Hey guys,
I've spent way too much time on oso researching this mess. My a$$ hurts from sitting here. I'm learning more every second though. After probing the bowels of OSO I believe (hypothesis only) that "+8" on the drive plate means 8% overdrive. Josh, What does your plate say? You said you were 1:1. How about you Cuda? I'm trying to figure out why a 27 pitch prop won't work behind a 600 hp engine and I might have been outfoxed by our friends at Formula and KAAMA. They may have changed the drive ratio to accomodate for the weight of a F402 or for a low horsepower original engine package. Does anyone here really know the drive ratio code? I posted on the tech question board to drum up help from our Scarab-kaama, stuphen-kaama, and other-kaama freinds. If i am overdriven, what does that mean in figuring prop pitch. Do I change the gear ratio or do I look for the elusive 22 pitch four blade surface piercing cleaver? AHHH, I love boating! Still considering 15 trolling motors bolted to the swim platform.........but how do I select props for them????? Talk to you later......Al
I've spent way too much time on oso researching this mess. My a$$ hurts from sitting here. I'm learning more every second though. After probing the bowels of OSO I believe (hypothesis only) that "+8" on the drive plate means 8% overdrive. Josh, What does your plate say? You said you were 1:1. How about you Cuda? I'm trying to figure out why a 27 pitch prop won't work behind a 600 hp engine and I might have been outfoxed by our friends at Formula and KAAMA. They may have changed the drive ratio to accomodate for the weight of a F402 or for a low horsepower original engine package. Does anyone here really know the drive ratio code? I posted on the tech question board to drum up help from our Scarab-kaama, stuphen-kaama, and other-kaama freinds. If i am overdriven, what does that mean in figuring prop pitch. Do I change the gear ratio or do I look for the elusive 22 pitch four blade surface piercing cleaver? AHHH, I love boating! Still considering 15 trolling motors bolted to the swim platform.........but how do I select props for them????? Talk to you later......Al
09-09-2004, 06:26 AM
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Re: Expensive weekend!
alj-
I just pulled my 357 out of the water last night. I will check the tag on the drives for any other numbers. I was wondering. Did the old power plants spin the 24p props better or "as good" than the new 540's? Something just isn't adding up. Maybe someone did a switcharoo on your gear set and didn't stamp it. I hope you get it figured out.
Josh
I just pulled my 357 out of the water last night. I will check the tag on the drives for any other numbers. I was wondering. Did the old power plants spin the 24p props better or "as good" than the new 540's? Something just isn't adding up. Maybe someone did a switcharoo on your gear set and didn't stamp it. I hope you get it figured out.
Josh
