"New" Mercury products in Miami: Puh-leeze!!
02-21-2006, 08:52 AM
#31
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Re: "New" Mercury products in Miami: Puh-leeze!!
I talked to a couple of Mercury Reps and they told me that the 700/Ace package would probably be available June/July time, but they did say they already had a lot of manufacturers wanting the package asap. I thought the 700/Ace package was a sweet setup.
02-21-2006, 09:44 AM
#32
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Re: "New" Mercury products in Miami: Puh-leeze!!
I'm about value for money, that's all. I don't see it in the black booth. Sorry. It's great that they've "supported" (ie, sold products to) performance boating all these years, but it's only because they could ultimately make money off of it by association, not out of the generosity of their hearts. (How many racers and/or poker runners got any product for no charge?) The job has been made easier by a lack of real competition, which also explains the age of much of the drive technology. Fair enough - that's good business sense. They may be the emperor, but I for one do not see their clothes. Does anyone here think they've handled the Bravo problems well over the last decade or so? The "ACE" is long, long overdue.
Rich is right - Volvo doesn't make a true high-speed drive in the racing sense, but when I can save $37,000 on my pleasure boat and not give up any speed to the Mercury package, it's a no-brainer. I've also learned to appreciate the value of neutral when docking....
I don't buy a new boat every year, so resale value isn't that big a deal - I'd rather have a decade of reliability and enjoyment. Besides - what's happened recently to the price of 575SCi boats (and soon 600SCi boats)?
I'm not sure I agree about there being no Volvo without Mercury. Strang went to Volvo because Elmer (Karl) Kiekhafer absolutely refused to build the stern drive, and only acquiesced to do so when the market forced him to. Jim Wynne obviously saw the value in the technology, and he knows a little something about boats. Without Volvo, there might not be sterndrives - we'll never know.
Anyway, my feelings about Volvo aside, it's not about them. I just see Mercury as a technology follower, not a technology leader. I agree that it's the right thing for them to do in their position - let the other guys take the risk, and then jump in when something becomes mainstream. Just don't try to convince me it's cutting edge when it's not (or not even available).
Rich is right - Volvo doesn't make a true high-speed drive in the racing sense, but when I can save $37,000 on my pleasure boat and not give up any speed to the Mercury package, it's a no-brainer. I've also learned to appreciate the value of neutral when docking....
I don't buy a new boat every year, so resale value isn't that big a deal - I'd rather have a decade of reliability and enjoyment. Besides - what's happened recently to the price of 575SCi boats (and soon 600SCi boats)?I'm not sure I agree about there being no Volvo without Mercury. Strang went to Volvo because Elmer (Karl) Kiekhafer absolutely refused to build the stern drive, and only acquiesced to do so when the market forced him to. Jim Wynne obviously saw the value in the technology, and he knows a little something about boats. Without Volvo, there might not be sterndrives - we'll never know.
Anyway, my feelings about Volvo aside, it's not about them. I just see Mercury as a technology follower, not a technology leader. I agree that it's the right thing for them to do in their position - let the other guys take the risk, and then jump in when something becomes mainstream. Just don't try to convince me it's cutting edge when it's not (or not even available).
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02-21-2006, 11:26 AM
#33
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Re: "New" Mercury products in Miami: Puh-leeze!!
Originally Posted by C_Spray
OK - Stand by for a r-e-a-l-l-y strong rant....
How ya doin' brudda? It's been a long time since I saw you hanging around LA or Philly!
How ya doin' brudda? It's been a long time since I saw you hanging around LA or Philly!
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Dying,....Is the day worth living for!!!!!!
02-21-2006, 11:37 AM
#34
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Re: "New" Mercury products in Miami: Puh-leeze!!
Originally Posted by C_Spray
I'm about value for money, that's all. I don't see it in the black booth. Sorry. It's great that they've "supported" (ie, sold products to) performance boating all these years, but it's only because they could ultimately make money off of it by association, not out of the generosity of their hearts. (How many racers and/or poker runners got any product for no charge?) The job has been made easier by a lack of real competition, which also explains the age of much of the drive technology. Fair enough - that's good business sense. They may be the emperor, but I for one do not see their clothes. Does anyone here think they've handled the Bravo problems well over the last decade or so? The "ACE" is long, long overdue.
Rich is right - Volvo doesn't make a true high-speed drive in the racing sense, but when I can save $37,000 on my pleasure boat and not give up any speed to the Mercury package, it's a no-brainer. I've also learned to appreciate the value of neutral when docking.... I don't buy a new boat every year, so resale value isn't that big a deal - I'd rather have a decade of reliability and enjoyment. Besides - what's happened recently to the price of 575SCi boats (and soon 600SCi boats)?
I'm not sure I agree about there being no Volvo without Mercury. Strang went to Volvo because Elmer (Karl) Kiekhafer absolutely refused to build the stern drive, and only acquiesced to do so when the market forced him to. Jim Wynne obviously saw the value in the technology, and he knows a little something about boats. Without Volvo, there might not be sterndrives - we'll never know.
Anyway, my feelings about Volvo aside, it's not about them. I just see Mercury as a technology follower, not a technology leader. I agree that it's the right thing for them to do in their position - let the other guys take the risk, and then jump in when something becomes mainstream. Just don't try to convince me it's cutting edge when it's not (or not even available).
Rich is right - Volvo doesn't make a true high-speed drive in the racing sense, but when I can save $37,000 on my pleasure boat and not give up any speed to the Mercury package, it's a no-brainer. I've also learned to appreciate the value of neutral when docking....
I don't buy a new boat every year, so resale value isn't that big a deal - I'd rather have a decade of reliability and enjoyment. Besides - what's happened recently to the price of 575SCi boats (and soon 600SCi boats)?I'm not sure I agree about there being no Volvo without Mercury. Strang went to Volvo because Elmer (Karl) Kiekhafer absolutely refused to build the stern drive, and only acquiesced to do so when the market forced him to. Jim Wynne obviously saw the value in the technology, and he knows a little something about boats. Without Volvo, there might not be sterndrives - we'll never know.
Anyway, my feelings about Volvo aside, it's not about them. I just see Mercury as a technology follower, not a technology leader. I agree that it's the right thing for them to do in their position - let the other guys take the risk, and then jump in when something becomes mainstream. Just don't try to convince me it's cutting edge when it's not (or not even available).
Light fuse and run
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02-21-2006, 11:57 AM
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Re: "New" Mercury products in Miami: Puh-leeze!!
Originally Posted by TopSpin80
does anyone have pics of the cummins "thing" ?
Ernie
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02-21-2006, 12:10 PM
#36
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Re: "New" Mercury products in Miami: Puh-leeze!!
I see that the fuse is lit.
Didn't wiessman have something to do with the development of the Mercury #6 drive or the dry sump version? Keeping with that theme does anyone consider the Wiessman drive into a category with Arneson, Buzzi.
I think the options for high performance drives are out there, we just don't have alot of information for the small lower production guys.
Didn't wiessman have something to do with the development of the Mercury #6 drive or the dry sump version? Keeping with that theme does anyone consider the Wiessman drive into a category with Arneson, Buzzi.
I think the options for high performance drives are out there, we just don't have alot of information for the small lower production guys.
02-21-2006, 12:16 PM
#37
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Re: "New" Mercury products in Miami: Puh-leeze!!
I don't see what all the fuss is. Mercs a good company. They kind've have/had a monopoly on the market for a while but that's changing. I think the biggest mistake Merc ever did was the Bravo. Even the drives built up off the Bravo just doesn't hold together when hp is thrown at 'em. #6...Come on, it's the undisputed king of performance drives. How many of those do you hear of getting broken??!!
02-21-2006, 12:27 PM
#38
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Re: "New" Mercury products in Miami: Puh-leeze!!
Originally Posted by T2x
5. Gushing about the duo props is nice conversation but has nothing to do with truly high performance technology...... unless, of course, you think "crash docking" at 5-6 knots is "fast boating".[/list]
02-21-2006, 02:53 PM
#39
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Re: "New" Mercury products in Miami: Puh-leeze!!
Originally Posted by Troutly
Woa.....I actually agree with The Obsolete one....for once
02-21-2006, 03:28 PM
#40
Geronimo36
Gold Member
Re: "New" Mercury products in Miami: Puh-leeze!!
Originally Posted by T2x
Some interesting facts....to put this in perspective.
1. The original Volvo Penta drive was designed by Charlie Strang while he was an engineer ........for Mercury.
Without Mercury.......there would be no Volvo.
2. Mercruiser's Speedmasters came out before Volvo's gangly pieces of junk in the 70's........ There has never been a racing outdrive that could stay on a race course with the MC's #2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. There have been a few fast direct surface drives....but certainly nothing from Volvo.
3.The Imco's, like all single shaft, through hub Bravo knockoffs, share the same aversion to HP........ They crack when subjected to the massive side loads that high HP creates.
4. Volvo makes a nice drive.......... they do not make anything approaching the larger MC's...... but they do make a nice drive. If you want the best....you're talking a #6.
By the way how is Volvo's dry sump program coming along?
5. Gushing about the duo props is nice conversation but has nothing to do with truly high performance technology...... unless, of course, you think "crash docking" at 5-6 knots is "fast boating".
6. Take all of these "other engine builders" and compare
1. The original Volvo Penta drive was designed by Charlie Strang while he was an engineer ........for Mercury.
Without Mercury.......there would be no Volvo.
2. Mercruiser's Speedmasters came out before Volvo's gangly pieces of junk in the 70's........ There has never been a racing outdrive that could stay on a race course with the MC's #2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. There have been a few fast direct surface drives....but certainly nothing from Volvo.
3.The Imco's, like all single shaft, through hub Bravo knockoffs, share the same aversion to HP........ They crack when subjected to the massive side loads that high HP creates.
4. Volvo makes a nice drive.......... they do not make anything approaching the larger MC's...... but they do make a nice drive. If you want the best....you're talking a #6.
By the way how is Volvo's dry sump program coming along?
5. Gushing about the duo props is nice conversation but has nothing to do with truly high performance technology...... unless, of course, you think "crash docking" at 5-6 knots is "fast boating".
6. Take all of these "other engine builders" and compare
- "true" Horsepower...not the wishful claims half of these guys make
- Service network and warrantee
- propeller selection (unless, of course, they don't make propellers)
- Electronics, and R&D....( Smartcraft, Guardian)
- Resale ( 2004 36' Glitz Craft with twin Mario Provolone 750's priced to sell)
- parts availability
- X site
Amen.
Competition is good for the market, it keeps everyone on their toes. It's also supposed to help with competitive pricing but when you have a monopoly it makes things tough.
