Diesel engines in speed boat
02-27-2008, 06:20 PM
#151
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just been working a little on a concept. the dimensions aren't correct because i didn't have a head and turbo flange to work off of, but I'll begin the CFD analysis as soon as I get all the parts. The best way probably isn't the cheapes, but I have herd some of the chineese cheaper maring blocks weren't toleranced correctly from some marine genset guys at work, but The truck engines were built good. It may jest be their opinion.
Here is the start of the design anyways. I think I can have the exhaust built at a place locally that waterjackets this type of stuff for chemical plants. I just have to create the CAD/G-code for thier bending machine.
Ernie
Here is the start of the design anyways. I think I can have the exhaust built at a place locally that waterjackets this type of stuff for chemical plants. I just have to create the CAD/G-code for thier bending machine.
Ernie
02-27-2008, 08:16 PM
#152
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I just want to say to everyone that is starting to contribute to this thread - Thank you!!!! This is how we make progress and I can tell you all are diesel fans as am I.
I really appreicate it when we all can debate ideas and experiences like we are - thank you again!!!
Now, steel pistons - the best!!!
Topspin - the comment about Chinese blocks???? I don't know today but, years ago all the US "B" engines were cast here. When the engine is cast it does know whether it is truck, boat or gen. Cummins does license "B" production in other parts of the world, that is what they may be referring to?
That header is sick, very cool!!!
Firefox - agreed, in a low bucks install that top mount is probably better.
The fuel starve problem, you need to be very careful about boosting lift pressure on the mechanical pumps. High pressures will push the plunger to one side of the barrel and they will score. Both Seatek and us solved that years ago by simpling putting another hole on the opposite side of the barrel. The pressure from 2 sides kept it stable.
Thanks again, I love this stuff!!!
I really appreicate it when we all can debate ideas and experiences like we are - thank you again!!!
Now, steel pistons - the best!!!
Topspin - the comment about Chinese blocks???? I don't know today but, years ago all the US "B" engines were cast here. When the engine is cast it does know whether it is truck, boat or gen. Cummins does license "B" production in other parts of the world, that is what they may be referring to?
That header is sick, very cool!!!
Firefox - agreed, in a low bucks install that top mount is probably better.
The fuel starve problem, you need to be very careful about boosting lift pressure on the mechanical pumps. High pressures will push the plunger to one side of the barrel and they will score. Both Seatek and us solved that years ago by simpling putting another hole on the opposite side of the barrel. The pressure from 2 sides kept it stable.
Thanks again, I love this stuff!!!
02-28-2008, 03:41 AM
#153
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All kinds of nese out there.
There some low quality Chinese knock offs on the market. They are knock offs of earlier model designs. The Chinese won't copy the late model designs be cause Cummins will go on the warpath. Now on the other hand there is the Japanese. Special K gotta license to build B series engines for their construction equipment. So they could market in the US without hassles from the EPA. Well you know how A-retentive the Japanese are. They just can't leave stuff alone. The first thing they did was improve the casting of the B head. Back when the Diamond series 6BT marine engines were being used at over 300hp there was a lot of head meltdowns. It became apparent that if you used a Special K backhoe head your problems were solved. Well over the years Special K began casting heads at a plant in Brazil. Marriage made in heaven cheap Brazilian labor and infrastructure with Japanese A-retentive quality control. Now Cummins buys a lot of castings from Special K. Cummins and Special K have been trading technologies back and forth for a long time. 
Last edited by 29Firefox; 02-28-2008 at 03:52 AM.
02-28-2008, 06:23 AM
#154
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29Firefox,
Are you old Cummins?
Do you remember Irv French, he set the Brazil license deals up way back, I see him every week.
I see Jim Shipp as well, he's here in NJ also.
Are you old Cummins?
Do you remember Irv French, he set the Brazil license deals up way back, I see him every week.
I see Jim Shipp as well, he's here in NJ also.
02-28-2008, 11:08 AM
#155
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Using the top facing outlet on the Cummins Marine manifold is exactly what Tony Athens does (boatdiesel.com). Of course, putting the turbo on top of the engine makes for a rather tall package that may not fit in every boat.
Incidentally, Tony has an almost unbelievable amount of info about the evolution of the B-series marine engine. As a distributor, he takes a factory fresh engine and does a fair amount of rework before his customers ever get the engines in their boats.
I don't know the inner workings of the relationship between Cummins and the foundry in Brazil, but I have heard that there are better parts available from Brazil that aren't readily obtained in the states, including castings made from different/better iron alloys.
29Firefox is right about one way to force more fuel in, but that's certainly not an elegant solution. Extrude honing is just about the worst way to increase flow through a common rail fuel injector. You'll get more fuel, but at the expense of poor quality combustion (smoke, BSFC, and EGT will get worse).
Bosch puts a LOT of effort into making them with almost unimaginably tight tolerances. Extrude honing is an extremely crude process compared to the original manufacturing process (EDM for "rough" hole and then hydro grind to final flow rate). By design, the process virtually guarantees consistency from one injector to the next. The small differences that result are measured and accounted for in the ECU calibration.
Incidentally, Tony has an almost unbelievable amount of info about the evolution of the B-series marine engine. As a distributor, he takes a factory fresh engine and does a fair amount of rework before his customers ever get the engines in their boats.
I don't know the inner workings of the relationship between Cummins and the foundry in Brazil, but I have heard that there are better parts available from Brazil that aren't readily obtained in the states, including castings made from different/better iron alloys.
29Firefox is right about one way to force more fuel in, but that's certainly not an elegant solution. Extrude honing is just about the worst way to increase flow through a common rail fuel injector. You'll get more fuel, but at the expense of poor quality combustion (smoke, BSFC, and EGT will get worse).
Bosch puts a LOT of effort into making them with almost unimaginably tight tolerances. Extrude honing is an extremely crude process compared to the original manufacturing process (EDM for "rough" hole and then hydro grind to final flow rate). By design, the process virtually guarantees consistency from one injector to the next. The small differences that result are measured and accounted for in the ECU calibration.
02-28-2008, 09:05 PM
#159
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Using the top facing outlet on the Cummins Marine manifold is exactly what Tony Athens does (boatdiesel.com). Of course, putting the turbo on top of the engine makes for a rather tall package that may not fit in every boat.
Incidentally, Tony has an almost unbelievable amount of info about the evolution of the B-series marine engine. As a distributor, he takes a factory fresh engine and does a fair amount of rework before his customers ever get the engines in their boats.
I don't know the inner workings of the relationship between Cummins and the foundry in Brazil, but I have heard that there are better parts available from Brazil that aren't readily obtained in the states, including castings made from different/better iron alloys.
29Firefox is right about one way to force more fuel in, but that's certainly not an elegant solution. Extrude honing is just about the worst way to increase flow through a common rail fuel injector. You'll get more fuel, but at the expense of poor quality combustion (smoke, BSFC, and EGT will get worse).
Bosch puts a LOT of effort into making them with almost unimaginably tight tolerances. Extrude honing is an extremely crude process compared to the original manufacturing process (EDM for "rough" hole and then hydro grind to final flow rate). By design, the process virtually guarantees consistency from one injector to the next. The small differences that result are measured and accounted for in the ECU calibration.
Incidentally, Tony has an almost unbelievable amount of info about the evolution of the B-series marine engine. As a distributor, he takes a factory fresh engine and does a fair amount of rework before his customers ever get the engines in their boats.
I don't know the inner workings of the relationship between Cummins and the foundry in Brazil, but I have heard that there are better parts available from Brazil that aren't readily obtained in the states, including castings made from different/better iron alloys.
29Firefox is right about one way to force more fuel in, but that's certainly not an elegant solution. Extrude honing is just about the worst way to increase flow through a common rail fuel injector. You'll get more fuel, but at the expense of poor quality combustion (smoke, BSFC, and EGT will get worse).
Bosch puts a LOT of effort into making them with almost unimaginably tight tolerances. Extrude honing is an extremely crude process compared to the original manufacturing process (EDM for "rough" hole and then hydro grind to final flow rate). By design, the process virtually guarantees consistency from one injector to the next. The small differences that result are measured and accounted for in the ECU calibration.
http://www.dynomitediesel.com/
02-29-2008, 10:11 AM
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Interesting. Their site doesn't have much technical info, but looking at their photos, it appears they've got a better process than simple extrude honing. I wonder if they're duplicating the Bosch process.
