Diesel engines in speed boat
10-13-2008, 07:05 PM
#331
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Ok, we need to get on the same page here. Everyone is talking about speed, acceleration, etc but we have no benchmarks.
So,
how fast do you want a diesel boat to go?
That is how we get to (for arguments sake) what is needed to get there.
In my eyes 65-75 mph is useless. You can get most of todays35' -42' gas powered boats to run that fast with pretty mild engines.
My idea of diesel offshore powerboat is 100-110 mph.
The reason I say this is because I think that is where you start to have un-reliable/short lived gas engines. So, if you have diesels boats running that fast you have an advantage.
So, how fast do you want a diesel boat to go?
What do you want from a diesel powered boat?
Joe Gere
So,
how fast do you want a diesel boat to go?
That is how we get to (for arguments sake) what is needed to get there.
In my eyes 65-75 mph is useless. You can get most of todays35' -42' gas powered boats to run that fast with pretty mild engines.
My idea of diesel offshore powerboat is 100-110 mph.
The reason I say this is because I think that is where you start to have un-reliable/short lived gas engines. So, if you have diesels boats running that fast you have an advantage.
So, how fast do you want a diesel boat to go?
What do you want from a diesel powered boat?
Joe Gere
10-13-2008, 08:18 PM
#332
Registered
Jassman,
It's very easy and again no Bullsh*t it was done 20 years ago with mechanical engines. It boils down to loosing midrange unless you have a 2 speed.
600 hp Cummins C's will put you close.
715 QSM 11's and your smokin' in a 43'.
Jass, I wrote about this on here once before and some people laughed at me for being a dinousaur. Get the Arenson drives with the chain boxes on them so the drives can be lowered in the boat and put close together. (People don't realize when looking at the Buzzi boats how close and low the drives were. Our OD boxes were made on an offset and angled in and down to connect to the drives).
You can get your OD (.70 depending on which engine) gearing through the chain boxes and when you use a 2 speed you want a final drive of 1:1. I beleive the ZF has a 1.33:1 / 1:1 that gives you direct drive to get on plane and hit high gear and you have OD.
Your going to loose mid-range speed because of the smaller dia props you'll be using. So the ability to plane at probalbly less than 30-40 mph will not exist, the boat either plows along or is up and humming.
You can take this to any builder and they most likely will say "NO way". But they haven't build fast diesel boats, raced diesel boats or lost $4 million of their own money playing with them.
I say these things with conviction because they work, if you wanted to I'd fly down and meet you and discuss in person. I want nothing from you, I'd spend my money to help you get going because I would like someone with some b*lls to get off their azz and do what I can't afford to do anymore.
Joe Gere
I'm really starting to sound crazy aren't I ????
It's very easy and again no Bullsh*t it was done 20 years ago with mechanical engines. It boils down to loosing midrange unless you have a 2 speed.
600 hp Cummins C's will put you close.
715 QSM 11's and your smokin' in a 43'.
Jass, I wrote about this on here once before and some people laughed at me for being a dinousaur. Get the Arenson drives with the chain boxes on them so the drives can be lowered in the boat and put close together. (People don't realize when looking at the Buzzi boats how close and low the drives were. Our OD boxes were made on an offset and angled in and down to connect to the drives).
You can get your OD (.70 depending on which engine) gearing through the chain boxes and when you use a 2 speed you want a final drive of 1:1. I beleive the ZF has a 1.33:1 / 1:1 that gives you direct drive to get on plane and hit high gear and you have OD.
Your going to loose mid-range speed because of the smaller dia props you'll be using. So the ability to plane at probalbly less than 30-40 mph will not exist, the boat either plows along or is up and humming.
You can take this to any builder and they most likely will say "NO way". But they haven't build fast diesel boats, raced diesel boats or lost $4 million of their own money playing with them.
I say these things with conviction because they work, if you wanted to I'd fly down and meet you and discuss in person. I want nothing from you, I'd spend my money to help you get going because I would like someone with some b*lls to get off their azz and do what I can't afford to do anymore.
Joe Gere
I'm really starting to sound crazy aren't I ????
Last edited by HabanaJoe; 10-13-2008 at 08:28 PM.
10-13-2008, 08:35 PM
#333
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Jassman,
It's very easy and again no Bullsh*t it was done 20 years ago with mechanical engines. It boils down to loosing midrange unless you have a 2 speed.
600 hp Cummins C's will put you close.
715 QSM 11's and your smokin' in a 43'.
Jass, I wrote about this on here once before and some people laughed at me for being a dinousaur. Get the Arenson drives with the chain boxes on them so the drives can be lowered in the boat and put close together. (People don't realize when looking at the Buzzi boats how close and low the drives were. Our OD boxes were made on an offset and angled in and down to connect to the drives).
You can get your OD (.70 depending on which engine) gearing through the chain boxes and when you use a 2 speed you want a final drive of 1:1. I beleive the ZF has a 1.33:1 / 1:1 that gives you direct drive to get on plane and hit high gear and you have OD.
Your going to loose mid-range speed because of the smaller dia props you'll be using. So the ability to plane at probalbly less than 30-40 mph will not exist, the boat either plows along or is up and humming.
You can take this to any builder and they most likely will say "NO way". But they haven't build fast diesel boats, raced diesel boats or lost $4 million of their own money playing with them.
I say these things with conviction because they work, if you wanted to I'd fly down and meet you and discuss in person. I want nothing from you, I'd spend my money to help you get going because I would like someone with some b*lls to get off their azz and do what I can't afford to do anymore.
Joe Gere
I'm really starting to sound crazy aren't I ????
It's very easy and again no Bullsh*t it was done 20 years ago with mechanical engines. It boils down to loosing midrange unless you have a 2 speed.
600 hp Cummins C's will put you close.
715 QSM 11's and your smokin' in a 43'.
Jass, I wrote about this on here once before and some people laughed at me for being a dinousaur. Get the Arenson drives with the chain boxes on them so the drives can be lowered in the boat and put close together. (People don't realize when looking at the Buzzi boats how close and low the drives were. Our OD boxes were made on an offset and angled in and down to connect to the drives).
You can get your OD (.70 depending on which engine) gearing through the chain boxes and when you use a 2 speed you want a final drive of 1:1. I beleive the ZF has a 1.33:1 / 1:1 that gives you direct drive to get on plane and hit high gear and you have OD.
Your going to loose mid-range speed because of the smaller dia props you'll be using. So the ability to plane at probalbly less than 30-40 mph will not exist, the boat either plows along or is up and humming.
You can take this to any builder and they most likely will say "NO way". But they haven't build fast diesel boats, raced diesel boats or lost $4 million of their own money playing with them.
I say these things with conviction because they work, if you wanted to I'd fly down and meet you and discuss in person. I want nothing from you, I'd spend my money to help you get going because I would like someone with some b*lls to get off their azz and do what I can't afford to do anymore.
Joe Gere
I'm really starting to sound crazy aren't I ????
10-13-2008, 09:01 PM
#334
Registered
Does anyone know the true numbers of the Seatek Sonic a few years ago? I was once told 98. 90-100 would be ideal for me too. I have a 41' mold that I hope to see put to use with some diesels one day. I truly would like to see the century mark broken with diesels without losing reliability by turning them too much.
10-13-2008, 09:30 PM
#335
Registered
I'ved said this more than once on here - the black #38 in 1990 ran 92-94 with twin almost 600hp Seateks and with twin 750's ran 102-104 and would have went faster but we didn't have taller gears at the time. All the gear boxes were one offs and it took time to make them.
Dollor Marine the Apache 41 in manufacturer V circa 1990 was without question the only 41 going near if not over 100mph.
Every race Dollor Marine pulled if not pasted us on the turns and we past her on the straight, with no problem at all. Pull the race tapes you'll see it yourself.
Anyone who seen a Buzzi boat trun knew - they can't make sharp turns, you needed to slow them down and engine steer them around the corner.
Why don't boat builders do it if it's so easy - becasue other than a very few people no one really wants them, the reasons are many.
Dollor Marine the Apache 41 in manufacturer V circa 1990 was without question the only 41 going near if not over 100mph.
Every race Dollor Marine pulled if not pasted us on the turns and we past her on the straight, with no problem at all. Pull the race tapes you'll see it yourself.
Anyone who seen a Buzzi boat trun knew - they can't make sharp turns, you needed to slow them down and engine steer them around the corner.
Why don't boat builders do it if it's so easy - becasue other than a very few people no one really wants them, the reasons are many.
10-14-2008, 02:48 PM
#337
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Why half step
Jassman,
It's very easy and again no Bullsh*t it was done 20 years ago with mechanical engines. It boils down to loosing midrange unless you have a 2 speed.
600 hp Cummins C's will put you close.
715 QSM 11's and your smokin' in a 43'.
Jass, I wrote about this on here once before and some people laughed at me for being a dinousaur. Get the Arenson drives with the chain boxes on them so the drives can be lowered in the boat and put close together. (People don't realize when looking at the Buzzi boats how close and low the drives were. Our OD boxes were made on an offset and angled in and down to connect to the drives).
You can get your OD (.70 depending on which engine) gearing through the chain boxes and when you use a 2 speed you want a final drive of 1:1. I beleive the ZF has a 1.33:1 / 1:1 that gives you direct drive to get on plane and hit high gear and you have OD.
Your going to loose mid-range speed because of the smaller dia props you'll be using. So the ability to plane at probalbly less than 30-40 mph will not exist, the boat either plows along or is up and humming.
You can take this to any builder and they most likely will say "NO way". But they haven't build fast diesel boats, raced diesel boats or lost $4 million of their own money playing with them.
I say these things with conviction because they work, if you wanted to I'd fly down and meet you and discuss in person. I want nothing from you, I'd spend my money to help you get going because I would like someone with some b*lls to get off their azz and do what I can't afford to do anymore.
Joe Gere
I'm really starting to sound crazy aren't I ????
It's very easy and again no Bullsh*t it was done 20 years ago with mechanical engines. It boils down to loosing midrange unless you have a 2 speed.
600 hp Cummins C's will put you close.
715 QSM 11's and your smokin' in a 43'.
Jass, I wrote about this on here once before and some people laughed at me for being a dinousaur. Get the Arenson drives with the chain boxes on them so the drives can be lowered in the boat and put close together. (People don't realize when looking at the Buzzi boats how close and low the drives were. Our OD boxes were made on an offset and angled in and down to connect to the drives).
You can get your OD (.70 depending on which engine) gearing through the chain boxes and when you use a 2 speed you want a final drive of 1:1. I beleive the ZF has a 1.33:1 / 1:1 that gives you direct drive to get on plane and hit high gear and you have OD.
Your going to loose mid-range speed because of the smaller dia props you'll be using. So the ability to plane at probalbly less than 30-40 mph will not exist, the boat either plows along or is up and humming.
You can take this to any builder and they most likely will say "NO way". But they haven't build fast diesel boats, raced diesel boats or lost $4 million of their own money playing with them.
I say these things with conviction because they work, if you wanted to I'd fly down and meet you and discuss in person. I want nothing from you, I'd spend my money to help you get going because I would like someone with some b*lls to get off their azz and do what I can't afford to do anymore.
Joe Gere
I'm really starting to sound crazy aren't I ????
10-14-2008, 05:30 PM
#338
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more data for you
I can only share the numbers i get with the heavy meteor. With a roller painted black antifouling bottom and fixed surface drives and a weight of about 19000 lbs we are running about 60mph max. As i have said we do hit 3150 with these props right away so there is maybe a bit of room on the top end...but the boat works so well at low speed and midrange that it is probably going to stay the way it is.
63 or 65 max is my guess with a standard painted bottom and a bit more pitch at this weight and hp with the 725 seateks and fixed drives...you guys can probably guess the mph increase with a perfect bottom..i cant.
At least you have the heavy-fast numbers to mess with in your predictions
mark
63 or 65 max is my guess with a standard painted bottom and a bit more pitch at this weight and hp with the 725 seateks and fixed drives...you guys can probably guess the mph increase with a perfect bottom..i cant.
At least you have the heavy-fast numbers to mess with in your predictions
mark
10-14-2008, 06:58 PM
#339
Registered
firefox,
My thought the 14L are just too big and they are not marinized well out of the box for these applications, it's too much work to build one offs.
Plus, if someone wanted to build a boat today I would never ask them to put up money and do R&D, the 11's are drop in and a guy like you could squeeze a few more ponies out of it with ease on the computer if the owner wanted it done.
fact5,
I don't want to be harsh here but your boat is just not designed to work as well as it could with surface drives. I feel no matter how much HP you put in it the returns just won't be worth it even if you were to think about it. I think higher Hp gives you diminishing returns with that boat.
Now, from a practical standpoint, your have a great package and let's be real, you can't cruise much faster than you do now and be as comfortable. I would love to have what you have!
My thought the 14L are just too big and they are not marinized well out of the box for these applications, it's too much work to build one offs.
Plus, if someone wanted to build a boat today I would never ask them to put up money and do R&D, the 11's are drop in and a guy like you could squeeze a few more ponies out of it with ease on the computer if the owner wanted it done.
fact5,
I don't want to be harsh here but your boat is just not designed to work as well as it could with surface drives. I feel no matter how much HP you put in it the returns just won't be worth it even if you were to think about it. I think higher Hp gives you diminishing returns with that boat.
Now, from a practical standpoint, your have a great package and let's be real, you can't cruise much faster than you do now and be as comfortable. I would love to have what you have!
10-14-2008, 10:40 PM
#340
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Look at Buzzi's 42' Patrol RIB with twin C-15 ACERTS. It does 70 knots out of the box. Wonder what it would do with a few tweaks
