New Magazine Idea
01-28-2010, 05:43 PM
#41
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sandown, NH - Sebago Lake Region, ME
Posts: 2,960
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
In all honesty, the only real place I read a magazine is in the bathroom. In an earlier post I talked about using the iPod touch for reading and posting which is how this post is being written. Granted the iPod sometimes is too small and just doesn't satisfy the look and feel of a magazine but my opinion has changed after seeing apples latest gadget the ipad! Roughly the size of a magazine and only .5 inches thick this may be the device to help launch the real digital magazine era! Maybe you should think of developing your pilot issue as both a limited print copy and an ipad ready version? Just a thought!!!
Jim
Jim
01-28-2010, 06:11 PM
#42
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sandown, NH - Sebago Lake Region, ME
Posts: 2,960
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Jim
01-28-2010, 06:37 PM
#43
Registered
Is there more places then the crapper, Hell yes. PS. Case your wondering, just leaving work.
01-28-2010, 07:31 PM
#44
Registered
I do agree that boating magazines do have a place. From my humble point of view, two important things:
1) Honesty in conducting/reporting all product tested.
example: Love to read Bob Teague sounding off on how this boat "stinks" or that boat "turns beautiful---on it's own".
Ahhhhh, what am I thinking. The advertisers would never stand for it.
2) Ship each and every issue to the customer who just happened to paid for it-------IN ADVANCE.
Example: Some of us still remember being scammed out of our money by Extreme and their "non delivery".
1) Honesty in conducting/reporting all product tested.
example: Love to read Bob Teague sounding off on how this boat "stinks" or that boat "turns beautiful---on it's own".
Ahhhhh, what am I thinking. The advertisers would never stand for it.
2) Ship each and every issue to the customer who just happened to paid for it-------IN ADVANCE.
Example: Some of us still remember being scammed out of our money by Extreme and their "non delivery".
01-28-2010, 08:10 PM
#45
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Channel Islands, So. Cal.
Posts: 13,937
Received 3,414 Likes
on
1,104 Posts
In 2003 several of us started Extreme Boat Magazine and as Ron Polli said, content wasn't the issue. We had very simular ideas in what we wanted show and do with the features. Readers rides, reviews from boat owners, projects that the owners were able to do and needed help with.
It was very well recieved and with people like Ron providing content about offshore racing and Bill providing the Unliimited Hydro connection, we had a great thing going. None of us were taking a salary and scraping up everything we had to print each issue figuring the advertising dollars would soon follow...NOT! The advetisers were interested but wanted lots of proof their dollars were getting results.
Though we had lots of issues, advertisers and capitalization were the main ones and caused us to seek outside investment earlier than we had planned to. So we lost editorial control and the magazine took on a differant slant, but one we still thought did well, it just wasn't along the lines we planned.
Knowing the boating manufactures and accessory suppliers were a very limited market for advertising income, we started there but also went after hotels, real estate and other advertising. Each issue cost $15,000 to $20,000 to print and ship and the 25 dollars per year subscriptions just don't cover very much of it.
As Casey Kiernan, the new publisher, grew it over the years, advertisers were covering each issue but not much more than that and without them, no matter how good the content, your not going to get a single magazine printed.
As we all saw, the economy took out Hot Boat and Extreme Boats along with hundreds of other magazines out there.
Chris Davidson of Performance Boats has several things going for him, DEEP POCKETS and a publishing plan that limits the number of print issues a year.
Powerboat is doing simular things like cutting back on number of issues.
So, I agree a magazine with the type of content you mention is needed, good luck in getting it together. Make sure you can publish for a year without much income and line up some great photograhy and writers. You might just be in time for the next economic wave to carry you along!!
It was very well recieved and with people like Ron providing content about offshore racing and Bill providing the Unliimited Hydro connection, we had a great thing going. None of us were taking a salary and scraping up everything we had to print each issue figuring the advertising dollars would soon follow...NOT! The advetisers were interested but wanted lots of proof their dollars were getting results.
Though we had lots of issues, advertisers and capitalization were the main ones and caused us to seek outside investment earlier than we had planned to. So we lost editorial control and the magazine took on a differant slant, but one we still thought did well, it just wasn't along the lines we planned.
Knowing the boating manufactures and accessory suppliers were a very limited market for advertising income, we started there but also went after hotels, real estate and other advertising. Each issue cost $15,000 to $20,000 to print and ship and the 25 dollars per year subscriptions just don't cover very much of it.
As Casey Kiernan, the new publisher, grew it over the years, advertisers were covering each issue but not much more than that and without them, no matter how good the content, your not going to get a single magazine printed.
As we all saw, the economy took out Hot Boat and Extreme Boats along with hundreds of other magazines out there.
Chris Davidson of Performance Boats has several things going for him, DEEP POCKETS and a publishing plan that limits the number of print issues a year.
Powerboat is doing simular things like cutting back on number of issues.
So, I agree a magazine with the type of content you mention is needed, good luck in getting it together. Make sure you can publish for a year without much income and line up some great photograhy and writers. You might just be in time for the next economic wave to carry you along!!
Listen to Jim and Ron and learn from their experience. Jim is giving you REAL experience and advise. Are you ready to drop 15-20k an issue out the gate? PBM has been around for 40 years and is struggling to get advertisers (to pay!!). I remember people used to complain all the time when PBM was fat with ads. However, its those ads that pay for the magazine. Right now, in this economy, most are worried about keeping the electicity on, not how their quarter page ad looks in the latest magazine. No point in advertising when you might not be in business, or no one is buying a boat the month your ad comes out.
Everyone loves to critisize how a magazine is run, or the content, or what is said in a test, or that theres too many ads, but 99% of these people have no clue at what it takes. It's easy to sit on the side lines. Gettin in the game and fighting is another story.
I say more power to you. The more magazines in the market on the topic I love, the better! Your ideas are great. But get ready for a huge reality check once you're rolling. Even in a booming market (when Jim started Extreme) it's extremely difficult (no pun intended). But now, with this economy? There is absolutely 0 dollars in magazine right now.
I would stongly suggest calling Gregg Mansfield or Jason Johnson from PBM or RonP or Jim and talking to them one on one to gain some insite.
01-28-2010, 08:16 PM
#46
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Jupiter FL
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alright 8 issues a year @25,000 each = $200,000 add $50,00 for travel and bar tabs $250,000 yr. $25 each subscription=10,000 subscriptions looks like I have a head start on about 5 maybe 10 customers so only 9,990 subscriptions left. If we get all these subscriptions and we can say fu to the advertisers.
What are the 20,000 to 25,000 costs per issue mainly printing or what? How may did you print? what about distribution?
I liked extreme boats mag. I have not seen a performance boat around me.
What are the 20,000 to 25,000 costs per issue mainly printing or what? How may did you print? what about distribution?
I liked extreme boats mag. I have not seen a performance boat around me.
01-28-2010, 08:34 PM
#47
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Jupiter FL
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I figured there was cost and also figured advertising dollars thin.
The biggest thing on advertising is you have to do an ad where they know where the call is coming from. (I am thinking about this on the fly so my thoughts may change) If you can prove they come from your source then you can get the advertisers.
I was not really thinking hey lets do this to make some money I was thinking hey lets do something that interests me with other people who have the same interests and maybe some day it will turn a profit.
I am not losing interest in this idea I will definatly explore it but I am not going to do something tomorrow.
On another note I feel that a project boat type mag the way the economy is now would be a better fit than 3 years ago when money was easy.
I have sold advertising and spent money on it the thing I believe is if you as an marketing tool for advertisers produce measurable results than you get the dollars. How many times does a company ask how you heard about them as a customer (zero) you cannot expect them to so when you go to sell them advertising they say well I don't think it really works if you have a way to measure it exactly to number of calls they got from your pub then you can get the dollars (think apoartments.com).
Problem is old thinking gets old results I go in and say do you want to buy advertising this is what it costs for this size ad this is our demographic this is how many we print these are our subscriptions.
Another way of thinking is I will give you a ad in my mag for x subscriptions if I get x amount of leads you will pay x if I get xy you pay this If I don't get any you pay $0 (but we try again next month). There are ways for advertisers to track leads not just expect the customer to then you can give them a per lead cost and some companies help them get a handle on marketing.
The biggest thing on advertising is you have to do an ad where they know where the call is coming from. (I am thinking about this on the fly so my thoughts may change) If you can prove they come from your source then you can get the advertisers.
I was not really thinking hey lets do this to make some money I was thinking hey lets do something that interests me with other people who have the same interests and maybe some day it will turn a profit.
I am not losing interest in this idea I will definatly explore it but I am not going to do something tomorrow.
On another note I feel that a project boat type mag the way the economy is now would be a better fit than 3 years ago when money was easy.
I have sold advertising and spent money on it the thing I believe is if you as an marketing tool for advertisers produce measurable results than you get the dollars. How many times does a company ask how you heard about them as a customer (zero) you cannot expect them to so when you go to sell them advertising they say well I don't think it really works if you have a way to measure it exactly to number of calls they got from your pub then you can get the dollars (think apoartments.com).
Problem is old thinking gets old results I go in and say do you want to buy advertising this is what it costs for this size ad this is our demographic this is how many we print these are our subscriptions.
Another way of thinking is I will give you a ad in my mag for x subscriptions if I get x amount of leads you will pay x if I get xy you pay this If I don't get any you pay $0 (but we try again next month). There are ways for advertisers to track leads not just expect the customer to then you can give them a per lead cost and some companies help them get a handle on marketing.
01-28-2010, 09:03 PM
#48
Enjoy the show
VIP Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Joisey Shore
Posts: 10,353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EBM printed about 20k, but only had about 10,000 subscribers (I don't know that number for a fact, but it's close) The other 10k went to advertisers who then gave them away.
One thing Casey did better than most was the layout. EBM really had a slick feel to it.
So we agree, paper is great but almost dead. If you want to write articles I'm sure this web site would give you a formal place to post them for everyone to read. Some articles cost money due to travel etc, and some are cost free other than the time to write them.
I'll start. Here's an article that most would enjoy, cost nothing exept time and even has a quote from our own T2X. Enjoy.
*ignore the captions. This was a draft, not the final article.*
One thing Casey did better than most was the layout. EBM really had a slick feel to it.
So we agree, paper is great but almost dead. If you want to write articles I'm sure this web site would give you a formal place to post them for everyone to read. Some articles cost money due to travel etc, and some are cost free other than the time to write them.
I'll start. Here's an article that most would enjoy, cost nothing exept time and even has a quote from our own T2X. Enjoy.
*ignore the captions. This was a draft, not the final article.*
Last edited by Ron P; 01-28-2010 at 09:05 PM.
01-28-2010, 11:21 PM
#49
Registered
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bell Canyon, CA
Posts: 12,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ron....in the begining.......EB layout and photo quality SUCKED BIG TIME!!!! I could have done it better with an HP inkjet printer.
But..........I have to say somebody (maybe Casey?) got the layout and photography together and looked great!Publishing is changing but paper is not dead at all. Publishing is expanding! Ereaders and iTampon (iPad) will bring new things to new people in new ways!
01-28-2010, 11:33 PM
#50
Registered
I'll agree our first issues were pretty bad, and we did print them on an ink jet printer as our working proofs, which were much better. It took a while to figure out the digital to print fixes needed to get it better.
Casey made all the differance though, he is a great photographer and it showed in every issue after he took over.
Now "Sucked Big Time"? Show me what you've published and maybe I'll take your critique, but probably not
I'll tell you what, we had a ton of fun putting it together and love that we had the experience. I also think we had a bit of influence in the boating magazine industry putting out a better product, and articles we all wanted to see more of. I know we lit a fire under Hot Boat Mag back in 2003!!
Jim
