Where ARE all the LSx motors hiding???
06-17-2012, 05:37 AM
#181
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First ls kick in the back !
I hope so !! I wanted a small fast inboard looks quite normal (only problem it gonna sound far from normal !!!) A friend of mine build ls engines from the just got out for the european race teams and have quite some experience whit them ,I wanted first a 6.2 mph from merc but that changed quick when we start talking about it in to a ls I bought from ebay brand new L76 engine ls 2 block whit ls3 heads exaly the truck engine ,only one bolt of the external oil filter mount was broken very cheap ! then he stroked it too 406 whit forged compstar kit compression ratio 1 to 10 ,made it dry sump whit ls 7 parts
and upgraded the springs in the valve train ,the camshaft I don't know but it makes some reversion so maked the exhaust dry ,the ecm and harness (not the easiest one to program) I got from mast motorsport when we started there was not much out to convert the ls to marine I bought a closed cooling set from the pcm zr1 and a pair headers from cmi who first send the wrong ones(normal sbc) to europe ! luckily i could sell them here and bought a set ls ones where we dynoed the engine whit ,later I bought the lighting wich have a much nicer collector so might find another few hp !
The tailpipes we made in-house whit o2 fittings in them ,now I know why headers are that expensive !!
we put the headers forward due to the space behind the engine and the engine makes more power whit some length in the exhaust .
and upgraded the springs in the valve train ,the camshaft I don't know but it makes some reversion so maked the exhaust dry ,the ecm and harness (not the easiest one to program) I got from mast motorsport when we started there was not much out to convert the ls to marine I bought a closed cooling set from the pcm zr1 and a pair headers from cmi who first send the wrong ones(normal sbc) to europe ! luckily i could sell them here and bought a set ls ones where we dynoed the engine whit ,later I bought the lighting wich have a much nicer collector so might find another few hp !
The tailpipes we made in-house whit o2 fittings in them ,now I know why headers are that expensive !!
we put the headers forward due to the space behind the engine and the engine makes more power whit some length in the exhaust .
I put on the Bravo 1 X and a 26 bravo prop to look how it will handle before I gonna try the Blackhawk.
After warming up and a while testing if all steering worked and have no leaks we floor the throttle more and more it s incredible how it pics up when you hit the throttle !
it was a little windy and found a flat piece of water in the afternoon and get a chance to get it to the bottom to 6000 rpm and got 92mph very easy to handle and no chine walk .
only have a short vid of a fly by made by a friend on his phone .
06-17-2012, 08:33 AM
#182
http://www.1800runsnew.com/panther_new-perf.html. Anybody know anything about these? I wonder who builds them? Doug
06-18-2012, 11:43 AM
#183
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Ray, thanks for the response. You are no doubt engine savvy...but as an engineer myself, I NEED to see the test results to back up the theory. Only then is it fact. Would you be willing to share some of your real world experience and results with OSO?
Bor,....that thing sounds incredible!! Looks like a thrill ride for sure. I think your buddy's giggle sums it up nicely, lol. Where do you have the rev limiter set? How much did you still have left at the low 6000 rpm range?
Outriggers...looks like another player in the market. Wonder if they have installed either of those in a boat yet?
Bor,....that thing sounds incredible!! Looks like a thrill ride for sure. I think your buddy's giggle sums it up nicely, lol. Where do you have the rev limiter set? How much did you still have left at the low 6000 rpm range?
Outriggers...looks like another player in the market. Wonder if they have installed either of those in a boat yet?
06-18-2012, 11:52 AM
#184
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I have the limiter @6750 but the tq is going down slightly from 5600 so gonna try bigger prop and see if it goes to 6000 again and also have a blckhawk drive I want to try it's now quite leaning on the left side due to the rotation force .
but the ride is indeed a thrill it jumps forward like a super car it s addicted !!
but the ride is indeed a thrill it jumps forward like a super car it s addicted !!
06-19-2012, 01:23 AM
#185
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Wasted Income:
I appreciate your questioning of my my opinion, nothing wrong with that. As for proof for you, let's ask Haxby or Panther, or anyone else who has dynoed one of these GM -LSA engines to give or post the boost values from the dyno when the engine was loaded between the 3500 rpm to 4000rpm levels and I am pretty sure you will see the proof of what I am saying.
I have always noiticed so far no one seems to want to measure or post boost values at the 3000-6000rpm pulls on dyno printouts for the LSA engines? Why is that?
If you think a marine performance engine is going to last any reasonable hours lets say 300-400 hours when most of it's life is spent in boost at cruising rpms you will have to prove that to me. I am an engineer also and I like proof as much as the next engineer. Supercharged marine performance engines generally see engine lives of 100-200 hours before refreshing is required and that's some larger 500-540 cubic inch big blocks where most of the time at these rpms making 400-500 lb/ft. torque levels they are not even in boost.
The average 500-550HP marine performance engine normally aspirated, supercharged or other wise needs to be an endurance engine - 400 plus hours before overhaul to deliver good long term value to the user, in my opinion. If the GM small block LSA supercharged engine can do that in lets say a 24-27 foot performance boat that sees about 75-100 hours per year of use, then it will easily join the club.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
I appreciate your questioning of my my opinion, nothing wrong with that. As for proof for you, let's ask Haxby or Panther, or anyone else who has dynoed one of these GM -LSA engines to give or post the boost values from the dyno when the engine was loaded between the 3500 rpm to 4000rpm levels and I am pretty sure you will see the proof of what I am saying.
I have always noiticed so far no one seems to want to measure or post boost values at the 3000-6000rpm pulls on dyno printouts for the LSA engines? Why is that?
If you think a marine performance engine is going to last any reasonable hours lets say 300-400 hours when most of it's life is spent in boost at cruising rpms you will have to prove that to me. I am an engineer also and I like proof as much as the next engineer. Supercharged marine performance engines generally see engine lives of 100-200 hours before refreshing is required and that's some larger 500-540 cubic inch big blocks where most of the time at these rpms making 400-500 lb/ft. torque levels they are not even in boost.
The average 500-550HP marine performance engine normally aspirated, supercharged or other wise needs to be an endurance engine - 400 plus hours before overhaul to deliver good long term value to the user, in my opinion. If the GM small block LSA supercharged engine can do that in lets say a 24-27 foot performance boat that sees about 75-100 hours per year of use, then it will easily join the club.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
06-19-2012, 02:02 AM
#186
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I guess we will all find out once the new Seven Marine 557 is put to the test and how long it will last. Opinions are something we all have one, regardless of what we think unless it is tested and tried, we can only assume. So hopefully the 557 will answer that question. Again the Lsx is a stout stout set up. Stock ones are as good as parts that are built High Performance for old gen engines.
John jr
John jr
Last edited by Fenderjack; 06-19-2012 at 02:06 AM.
06-19-2012, 08:05 AM
#187
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Wasted Income:
I appreciate your questioning of my my opinion, nothing wrong with that. As for proof for you, let's ask Haxby or Panther, or anyone else who has dynoed one of these GM -LSA engines to give or post the boost values from the dyno when the engine was loaded between the 3500 rpm to 4000rpm levels and I am pretty sure you will see the proof of what I am saying.
I appreciate your questioning of my my opinion, nothing wrong with that. As for proof for you, let's ask Haxby or Panther, or anyone else who has dynoed one of these GM -LSA engines to give or post the boost values from the dyno when the engine was loaded between the 3500 rpm to 4000rpm levels and I am pretty sure you will see the proof of what I am saying.
You sold a few....where are they? Why do you not want to share your data? Does it not live up to the motors that Mast and Haxby are producing? Are you afraid of publishing your package as a "failure"? To this point you have done NOTHING but spread your propaganda as to why a LSx will not work. I can not come up with any reason why you continue you negative assault on this platform, unless your mind set is "My engine package didn't work so no engine package will work." Why not tell us what happened with the two sets that you sold to customers? Were they displeased, or were they happy? 1. Most forced induction motors DO run some amount of boost in an offshore boat at cruise. If the bottom end is built right anything less than half of an atmosphere of positive pressure for an extended period of time will not hurt anything so long as proper parts are selected and engine cooling is sufficient.
2. If you would consider turbo charging a motor instead of super charging it the intervals between rebuilds get much further apart. There is no reason under the sun to continue to think that a supercharger is the only way to introduce positive pressure to the intake track of an engine.
I don't know how or why you continue to post you negative comments with out any of YOUR OWN DATA to back it up. Until then you are simply just noise in this thread.
Last edited by Precision; 06-19-2012 at 08:15 AM. Reason: to remove winky face. ;-)
06-19-2012, 09:52 AM
#189
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The LS series engine is good for a 24 - 27ft boat as in the vid above. Too bad that market has all but been abandoned by the industry. Outerlimits and a couple of others have tried to make inroads and time will tell on their success. For now at least size is king. It seems every week there is a new full pop MTI released. Your not going to power that with a couple of small blocks. A good question for Ray is he said he sold a total of 4 LS based packages when he was doing it. How many BBC based packages did he sell in the same time period. People with money are going big as in boat length and that means big blocks.
06-19-2012, 10:50 AM
#190
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I know it's not a performance boat but we finally got some decent props on the 29' Blackfin (31 Bertram hull) and have some data. Boat weighs 14,500lbs loaded, motors are 6.0VVT's, cruise at 3200rpm is 48% load 11.5 gallons per side, 27mph, WOT is just over 30gph at 100% load and 42mph. It cruises really nice at about 30mph and it's incredibly smooth and quiet compared to the old 330hp 454's. Now he can beat his buddies to the fishing grounds..
The Panther engines are the same GM Powertrain base engines everyone else uses. I believe they mostly do airboat stuff.
Don't be too hard on Ray, he means well.
The Panther engines are the same GM Powertrain base engines everyone else uses. I believe they mostly do airboat stuff.
Don't be too hard on Ray, he means well.
