Where ARE all the LSx motors hiding???
#21
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Dont get me wrong I like the LS series engines.....I want one for my race car....but heres another problem for the Marine environment.....how many places are making hot LS marine engines???....two or three in all of North America???.....great if one of them is in your back yard but what if its not???....you going to get one of these for your boat and trailer 1200mi to fix a small problem????....not likely....I bet every person on this site can name a place within 200mi of them that they would trust to build them a brusin' BBC.....its not all about power to weight.....so not
Heres another problem....Im not saying they are but are these things made with a bunch of one off custom parts????.....if they are what if this place goes out of business??.....a very real possibility in this economy.....can you go down to your local speed shop and buy every part for the thing???...a BBC you can.
Heres another problem....Im not saying they are but are these things made with a bunch of one off custom parts????.....if they are what if this place goes out of business??.....a very real possibility in this economy.....can you go down to your local speed shop and buy every part for the thing???...a BBC you can.
#22
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You can build an LS with almost zero GM parts, and will still be able to once they are phased to direct injection...there are aftermarket blocks, heads, cranks, rods, pistons, oil pans, exhaust....I'm not really seeing your logic about why it needs to be in production to be a viable power option?
Why isn't this a problem for the V-10 Ilmors? Same scenario...except not even the bellhousing fits. See a few of those out running around every so often.....but why not any LS motors that are turned up? That is the root of my question.
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Dont get me wrong I like the LS series engines.....I want one for my race car....but heres another problem for the Marine environment.....how many places are making hot LS marine engines???....two or three in all of North America???.....great if one of them is in your back yard but what if its not???....you going to get one of these for your boat and trailer 1200mi to fix a small problem????....not likely....I bet every person on this site can name a place within 200mi of them that they would trust to build them a brusin' BBC.....its not all about power to weight.....so not
It's not a concern of mine, however, since I turn my own wrenches, but yeah....I am sure a lot of the guys who are able to pony up for twin 700 SCIs or bigger would rather have the warranty, and have somebody else repair them when they break.
Heres another problem....Im not saying they are but are these things made with a bunch of one off custom parts????.....if they are what if this place goes out of business??.....a very real possibility in this economy.....can you go down to your local speed shop and buy every part for the thing???...a BBC you can.
If the LS aftermarket doesn't already rival the BBC aftermarket, I don't think it will be long.
I'd love if any of the engine suppliers (Raylar, Mast, LPG, Ilmor, etc) would chime in and provide some feedback/insight on any testing and development they've done in-hull on the LS engine packages they advertise.
I also wish there was a marine equivalent to Hot Rod Magazine who would take one hull, and test a 700 SCI back to back with a 700 hp LS based engine....just to see what happens?
Last edited by Wasted Income; 10-11-2011 at 11:39 AM.
#24
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I think it is a cost issue right now. I have plans to build a nasty LSX in the near future but it will not be cheap.... ...Ok, the engine part will be reasonable but the headers, cooling, accessories, mounts, wiring, PCMs are expensive or have to be fabbed..
How many years did it take for the automotive hotrodders to really start swapping these? Now it is popular and the aftermarket has made it easy for an auto swap, 5-10 years ago it was a pita and parts were not available, you had to make it yourself..
The vast majority of boaters are not do it yourselfers and/or dont have the capabilities to do such a swap.
I am sure some people are afraid of new technology in their boat.. How long did it take people to start upgrading to (aftermarket) EFI systems? Most were afraid of it until their buddy tried it first..
I do know of a few very fast LS powered boats but most are for R&D for future engine packages.
I love the power these can make, the torque is not quite like a BBC (N/A) but in a small light boat an LSX would rock..
My last auto based LSX at 408ci made just shy of 800hp on E85...
Give it time, they will start popping up.
How many years did it take for the automotive hotrodders to really start swapping these? Now it is popular and the aftermarket has made it easy for an auto swap, 5-10 years ago it was a pita and parts were not available, you had to make it yourself..
The vast majority of boaters are not do it yourselfers and/or dont have the capabilities to do such a swap.
I am sure some people are afraid of new technology in their boat.. How long did it take people to start upgrading to (aftermarket) EFI systems? Most were afraid of it until their buddy tried it first..
I do know of a few very fast LS powered boats but most are for R&D for future engine packages.
I love the power these can make, the torque is not quite like a BBC (N/A) but in a small light boat an LSX would rock..
My last auto based LSX at 408ci made just shy of 800hp on E85...
Give it time, they will start popping up.
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Yep. It's called hot rodding
Really? When was the last time GM put a big block in anything?
If you consider the 496/8.1L a big block, that would be 2006 FWIW.
You can build an LS with almost zero GM parts, and will still be able to once they are phased to direct injection...there are aftermarket blocks, heads, cranks, rods, pistons, oil pans, exhaust....I'm not really seeing your logic about why it needs to be in production to be a viable power option?
Why isn't this a problem for the V-10 Ilmors? Same scenario...except not even the bellhousing fits. See a few of those out running around every so often.....but why not any LS motors that are turned up? That is the root of my question.
Really? When was the last time GM put a big block in anything?
If you consider the 496/8.1L a big block, that would be 2006 FWIW.
You can build an LS with almost zero GM parts, and will still be able to once they are phased to direct injection...there are aftermarket blocks, heads, cranks, rods, pistons, oil pans, exhaust....I'm not really seeing your logic about why it needs to be in production to be a viable power option?
Why isn't this a problem for the V-10 Ilmors? Same scenario...except not even the bellhousing fits. See a few of those out running around every so often.....but why not any LS motors that are turned up? That is the root of my question.
Sure, anybody like yourself with mechanical inclination and motivation can hodge-podge a motor together and get it to run in a boat. But how many of us will spend $10k for something that's well...unique?
#26
I think we know how things are gonna turn out when most of the arguments are not based on the engine being able to perform, it appears most of them are just based on there being shops willing to do it or the supply of extra marine parts (i.e. headers). Both are temporary.
#27
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I'm in that group. My 292 basically has 27' of running surface and is too narrow for big blocks. A couple 550HP LS engines would be a killer (and lighter) set-up compared to the 320HP 6.2's that currently push my rig 70mph.
#28
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Mast LS Marine Engines
600HP / Under 600 Lbs.
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#29
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Because Mercury is too backwards thinking to use them,plain and simple..Hell they are still selling carbed engines and 4.3V6s which havent been available in cars for over a decade!
Unless Mercury uses the LSx motors it will take a long time for them to become common in marine usage, too many manufacturers just wont use anything else and too many people lump anything not Mercury into the "hot rod" category
Unless Mercury uses the LSx motors it will take a long time for them to become common in marine usage, too many manufacturers just wont use anything else and too many people lump anything not Mercury into the "hot rod" category
#30
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Not GM but MARINE manufacturers. You know, the ones with REALLY LOW production volume to spread costs over. That ILMOR LSx will be a $30000 chunk of aluminum, not including drive. Heck, CMI exhaust for the LS motors is $4000. Nobody offers brackets and accessories for a marine LS engine.
Sure, anybody like yourself with mechanical inclination and motivation can hodge-podge a motor together and get it to run in a boat. But how many of us will spend $10k for something that's well...unique?
Sure, anybody like yourself with mechanical inclination and motivation can hodge-podge a motor together and get it to run in a boat. But how many of us will spend $10k for something that's well...unique?
It's really not an argument of whether or not it's good business...there MUST be a market for it, based on the fact that there are like 10 different companies advertising LS marine packages from 350 to 700 hp. I just want to know if they are in any boats, and how they run.
Ok, so for argument's sake, say the Ilmor 7.4 MV8 costs $30k + the cost of the drive. It makes 522 hp. How much does a new Mercury 525 cost, with drive? I'm just curious?
Nobody offers marine brackets and accessories for the LS?
http://www.crusaderengines.com/NewFiles/60parts.pdf
Crusader offers several different types of marine engine mount options, as well as oil coolers, heat exhcangers, exhaust manifolds, and yes, even front accessories such as raw water pumps, and USCG starters and alternators. The parts are out there.
EDIT: ^ and this is just if you want to piece your own together (if you're a hodge-podger like I am). There are several hi-po LS options that are turn key, ready to go....but yet again, WHERE ARE THEY? Would all those companies really spend the money to put together a package like that, and never install it in anything other than a ski-boat???
Last edited by Wasted Income; 10-11-2011 at 01:35 PM.