Leak proof, 10 yrs warrantee headers.
#21
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Just a thought out of the box.
#22
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Thread Starter
Stainless Marine and KE already have products which fill this void. Some of us made the swich to these sysems a long time ago and never looked back. Others seem to be waiting for something new to come out or want to develop something on thier own? Why?
I had 10+ years on my old Stainless Marine's, about 4 years on the Aapche's new system. No leaks, no nothing...
Also, Mercury also has bars which connect the headers to the block to reduce movement.
I had 10+ years on my old Stainless Marine's, about 4 years on the Aapche's new system. No leaks, no nothing...
Also, Mercury also has bars which connect the headers to the block to reduce movement.
I'm glad you had good luck with your headers. Stainless makes a good set. I'm not aware of KE making their own, I thought they are distributers to a bunch. Who knows? may be they will carry "PARADOX Performance Products" in the future.
I'm not sure the "void" issue is relevant. If the so called "void" is filled we would not be seeing new model cars, engines, hulls, or anything "new". The "model "T" filled a void, now you can buy a Lambo. The "void" is NEVER filled, there is always room for something new and better.
#23
Geronimo36
Gold Member
Frank, I agree but the Stainless Marine won't fit the 525 heads unless you redrill the head. Stanless marine has a jig they will lone out (with deposit) but drilling holes in heads
Peter, as long as they are not really ugly I don't think it would be an issue if they work, don't leak.
Peter, as long as they are not really ugly I don't think it would be an issue if they work, don't leak.
If someone were to build a manifold specifically for the 525 they would be targeting a very narrow market and sales would be limited. Having castings made for different bolt patterns would be very costly IMHO.
#24
Geronimo36
Gold Member
Know a bunch of people who have been running them with very good results. They've been out there a long time.
#25
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http://www.keitheickert.com/p-12533-...eader-kit.aspx
Know a bunch of people who have been running them with very good results. They've been out there a long time.
Know a bunch of people who have been running them with very good results. They've been out there a long time.
#26
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Pete:
Glad to hear about your possible new marine header product line. Just some thoughts and suggestions.
Please try and keep a few things in mind as you continue into designs and product of this class.
1. Headers should be headers and not just manifolds.The primary reason most performance boaters buy engines with true headers or add headers to their engines is to increase power. On normally aspirated engines the design and actual function of the header should produce measurable power and torque over a stock manifold or aftermarket manifold system. There is a science to actual runner shape, size and length and a true header should also have a carefully designed merge collector and transition into the tips to extract maximum efficiency from the engine. Todays performance boaters are very savy about performance gains and so you should have a header that produces results that will be verifiable in use and in the boat! There are actually only a small few marine headers that are excellent efficient designs!
2. There should also always be two distinct types of headers for marine performance engines, one long tube for N/A engines and another design specifically for supercharged and turbo charged engines the header requirement will be different especially how each engine type is trying to make maximum power.
3. Asthetics or "bling" in marine performance boats is HUGE, don't let anybody try to convince you its not that important!
Make sure the great looks are there as an aspect of your product and its design.
4. Try to keep the old saying KISS in mind. Keep the product as simple as possible and "Never Make a Product More Complicated than It Needs To Be to Work Well" !!
Keep the finished product easy to install as possible and easy to work on and service after install. Design in a clean finished appearance and tightly packaged as reasonable to keep space and clearance issues at a minimum.
5. Try to design and engineer from a market supported price point backwards to your final design and product. Its really not smart to design and then have to produce a product that is overpriced for its real market to a point where only a few users will purchase it.
I hope these ideas will help in your efforts. If I can be of help, let me know, I think I have a pretty good understanding of the marine exhaust connundrum and a lot of expierence into aspects of header design and performance.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Glad to hear about your possible new marine header product line. Just some thoughts and suggestions.
Please try and keep a few things in mind as you continue into designs and product of this class.
1. Headers should be headers and not just manifolds.The primary reason most performance boaters buy engines with true headers or add headers to their engines is to increase power. On normally aspirated engines the design and actual function of the header should produce measurable power and torque over a stock manifold or aftermarket manifold system. There is a science to actual runner shape, size and length and a true header should also have a carefully designed merge collector and transition into the tips to extract maximum efficiency from the engine. Todays performance boaters are very savy about performance gains and so you should have a header that produces results that will be verifiable in use and in the boat! There are actually only a small few marine headers that are excellent efficient designs!
2. There should also always be two distinct types of headers for marine performance engines, one long tube for N/A engines and another design specifically for supercharged and turbo charged engines the header requirement will be different especially how each engine type is trying to make maximum power.
3. Asthetics or "bling" in marine performance boats is HUGE, don't let anybody try to convince you its not that important!
Make sure the great looks are there as an aspect of your product and its design.
4. Try to keep the old saying KISS in mind. Keep the product as simple as possible and "Never Make a Product More Complicated than It Needs To Be to Work Well" !!
Keep the finished product easy to install as possible and easy to work on and service after install. Design in a clean finished appearance and tightly packaged as reasonable to keep space and clearance issues at a minimum.
5. Try to design and engineer from a market supported price point backwards to your final design and product. Its really not smart to design and then have to produce a product that is overpriced for its real market to a point where only a few users will purchase it.
I hope these ideas will help in your efforts. If I can be of help, let me know, I think I have a pretty good understanding of the marine exhaust connundrum and a lot of expierence into aspects of header design and performance.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Last edited by Raylar; 01-10-2012 at 10:22 PM.
#27
Charter Member
Charter Member
KE, IMCO, SM all make manifold/headers that already do this. Plus the KE's out perform ANYTHING and all other headers. They are not big on bling, (Unless you have them Powercoated) that is why I have (2) new sets sitting in my garage waiting for installation someday.
Desert Rage thanks for the pic of your awesome motor w/ KE headers
Desert Rage thanks for the pic of your awesome motor w/ KE headers
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#28
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I hear ya but for anyone competent with tools it's pretty easy to drill the holes and tap them in aluminum. Even if you mess up they're aluminum so they can be welded. If someone isn't mechanically inclined then pay some one to do it for 2 hrs.
If someone were to build a manifold specifically for the 525 they would be targeting a very narrow market and sales would be limited. Having castings made for different bolt patterns would be very costly IMHO.
If someone were to build a manifold specifically for the 525 they would be targeting a very narrow market and sales would be limited. Having castings made for different bolt patterns would be very costly IMHO.
(600sci?)
#29
Registered
I appreciate your comment, however, since you really don't know what's my "idea" is, it could still be very viable and it is. And yess... some of the CMI's are ok. And also YES we would cover the motors againts ANY water issues RE: headers. For example... and again this is an example not the design, but if I would cool the headers with forced air and not water, then no WATER could go into the motors.
Just a thought out of the box.
Just a thought out of the box.
#30
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
In my opinion, if it doesn't have the bling but has a cool purpose built look to it then that would be fine. Lets face it, if it were not for the strength/lightweight aspect of carbon fiber, it would just be a black and grey checkerboard plastic cover. It is what it is and does that makes it also look so cool.
I would be interested in seeing something different. Finned pipes for more cooling, oil or alcohol for a cooling fluid that would would be non-harmful to the engine if it did leak, something else.
I would be interested in seeing something different. Finned pipes for more cooling, oil or alcohol for a cooling fluid that would would be non-harmful to the engine if it did leak, something else.