bens87241

not sure how the air would get to them......but if it could i can see your point. at this point there is no idea to silly to examine. sometimes issues are right in front and easy answers that just get over looked. this boat had slip issues last year too.......or what i think is slip issue speed did not match rpms. but seems like this year its are a little worse. i had the prop polished hoping to help the slip and thats the only change from last year now its worse. i tried the mirage 23 pitch tring to rule out my prop as the issue after trying a 21 and 23 pitch 13 3/4 al 3 blade prop both of them i could not run at full throttle with the drive down. could get them on plane if i was very very easy with it. but anything over about 25 mph was a total free rev. and at that speed i was turning like 3800 i just figured the boat was too heavy to use that small of diameter prop the boat did orginaly come with 13 3/4 21 stainless prop i had the orginal prop and tried it last year......it would turn more rpms and the less speed than my 21 mirage so i sold it. I do have michigan wheel match 13 3/4 21 pitch stainless on a 195 horizon with the 205hp 4.3l v-6. It turns 4600 on that motor little boat actualy moves pretty good. I could try it but it should be a straight replacement for the one i sold. It truely does seem like the boat likes having more blade area on the water That is why i thinking a 4 blade would help. all the cheaper 4 blade al i can find are reasonable like 100. but are small diameter. and every time i have gone down that much in dia it has not helped. so i hate to spend 100 on a prop that i might not be able to use at all with very limited resell market.

I need to call a few prop shops in the area and see if they have 19-21-23 rev 4 or a ballistic since it seems like liberator like them form what i am told. or even alpha 4 or diamond 4 just to see. I know bblades has try program for like 50 bucks or so very reasonable the money can even go towards the purchase of a new i think.....problem is i dont have 500 to spend on new one right now when i can get a used one for 250ish. hate to spend 1/5 the money of getting one on just tring.

Just have not had the time during work hours to even call them.

what i dont know and someone here more than likely does. if i try a prop from bblades for the 50 and it does not work out and fit the boat right......if i want to try another prop is it another 50? do they sell the returned used ones at a discounted price?

bens87241

ok friday about 4pm my work day turned to hell in a handbag and i was almost 3 hours late leaving from work, by then my wife was more than packed and ready to go to lake when i got home so i did not get any of the tools needed to check everything out. The only thing i know for sure is that i was able to take hanger and unfold it and run it all the up the drain hole in front of the motor.......no blockage no extra water came out. I wish i could had gotten more checked and hate to make everyone helping me wait another week. maybe if i get time during the week i will make the trip back up to see.

In the mean time if anyone has a used murcury revolution 4 21 pitch or a used 3 or 4 blade michigan wheel ballistic prop in 21 pitch ( or maybe even a 19 or 23 in either just to test. I am sure 23 will be too much pitch but if the price is right i can have that changed ) send me a pm and let me know how much

bens87241

ok finial got a chance to get back to the lake and check some things out. The outdrive is 1.5 ratio. putting the boat in gear and turning the motor over , for the prop to go around once the dist. rotor moved 3/4 of a turn.

i tried the best i could to measire from the bottom of the hull to the prop shaft. actualy hard to do i muddy water with 2 foot waves.....but from what i could get its about 8 inches from the bottom of hull. Again hard to be under water with limitesd visablity and the boat moving up and down a few feet while tring to get it.....i thought it was going to land on my head.

The bildge is so dry the pump wont push anything out. i unfolded an old metal clothing hanger and ran it up through the drain hole just in front of the motor... nothing came out, i even tried to work it like a snake around and around not a drop.

I still was unable to get my trim gauge to work, i know its not in the gauge i can unhook and ground it and it moves, so it more than likely the sensor. But it seems like the best running trimming location is about halfway through the travel to the limit switch. I know this does not help alot cause the stops for that can be differant and changed from every boat. But i ran got my 42-43 mph came of plane...and it was about just short 2 one thousand count till hit the switch. did it again and was at a 2 one thousand count to the bottom. and a 4 count from the bottom to limit.

boat does run the same moh and rom in 2 foot chop as it does on glas flat slack water

double check ignition timing....at 900 rpm by the timing light its at 16 degrees, not sure what advance the module is giving me at that rpm i have that paper work somewhere i need to find it. But when its warm there is not a cranking issue not lag or dragging rolling over so i am sure its not more than a degree or 2 high. when i find the paper work on the thuderbolt module it shows me the advance rate curve


been looking for used rev4 or ballistic 21 pitch have not been able to locate one that is a good price and ppl are willing to ship.

bens87241

been awhile since i have much time to actualy work to try to figure things out on my boat, so i have been just enjoying it as it is. I called four winns the other day just to check some things on another boat, and asked them to run my vin......i was very suprised cause they told me oddly enough they had very little info on my boat on records. the guy was even surpised. what he did tell me was it appear my boat in 87 came from the factory with a bravo drive.......not that someon put it one. the serial number of the drive starts with a b and most alpha start with an a. so at least i have the drive number that the boat came with and i check to see if it matches my drive now. If so some how my boat came from fourwinns with a bravo drive in 87?? they did tell me the prop my boat came with was recommend to be between 15 1/4- to 15 1/2 inches.....no pitch just a diameter. i know a mirage 19 pitch is in this area of size. not sure if another mirage prop is the answer....i already have a 21 on there and tried a 23 with no improvement of slip number, but both of these are smaller diameter , i guess the question is does it make since that 1/2" diameter and going down 2 inches of pitch could it reduce slip percentage compaire to the same style prop that is smaller dia but steeper pitch? my 21 pitch is 14 3/4 and the 23 pitch is like 14 5/8 i beleive the 19 is like 15 1/4 and a 17 is like 15 1/2. I am sure 17 is not the way to go cause i turn the 21 pithch to 4200 rpm......but am seeing lik 23-25% slip. i would assuming if my slip number were to come so might the rpms so maybe a 19 pitch is worth the try?

BBCLiberator

Yes I think a 19" prop is worth trying, I think I said that on the first page. I have no knowlege with this Boat with a bravo, you shouldnt need a prop that big on an alpha. It is odd the boat was stock with this, maybe an early bravo drive, late model boat??? Who knows. Get the model number for the drive package (engine and drive together)and call merc...not that it really matters.

And yes, all things being equal, larger diameter means less slip.

bens87241

i am no expert.....but i did not think they made bravo drive till like 89 or 90? anyone know when they first made bravo drives? i figure i got a very early drive that for some how they were testing out.......or maybe it went back under warranty or something and fourwinns changed it, thats why their record show it....but i would think they would have records of the change not that it was the shipped as built area. I find it werid they have so little info on the boat too, i had and 86 241 previously and they were able to tell me just about everything under the sun about the boat......full options list and everything......this 87 almost nothing

BBCLiberator

It is odd, since they had phenomenal history on all three of the four winns boats I owned too, the first year of the bravo was "officially" 88'. However this is not the first 87' I've heard of with one, however, it's the only liberator I've ever heard of that came with one...

bens87241

so yeah checked the number on both the flame arrestor and the actual drive it self. number match. the number on the drive tag are so worn i had to pull the boat to get the right angle to see them. good thing is it will make fall clean up easier since i got to pressure wash this weekend. I am very pleased on how well the sea hawk bottom paint works with the bio boost install. the only real growth i had was in the first 6 inch or so water depth. I keep this brushed off regular, but all the stuff on the bottom almost nothing at all....just a very thin light green slim that for just ****s and gigles i used the regular hose and it cam off with that, but was faster with the pressure washer.

to bad a 241 liberator was not a higher damand boat, maybe one with a factory bravo drive would be worth a little more.......as it is i am sure the bravo does add soem to it.....but i woul think it is just a cool little oddity.

BBCLiberator

The 241 was an extremely popular boat, OMC killed the Liberator, four winns sold a ton of them especially the older style 211, 241, 261. When they went to the new style (201, 221, 251) they never took off, that combined with a couple years of OMC on the old style and the issues, and they really died off. If you are a performance boater, chances are you owned one, or boated with one. Here in Michigan they are EVERYWHERE, on a busy Saturday you could see 10 of them on any given day obviously the 211 was the best seller, but the 241 wasn't far behind. I boat with a 241 that has thru prop exhaust...don't see many of those but they are out there. Your Bravo is another rare one!!!

bens87241

I see one from time to time here in middle norther ohio. I know these boats are not the fastest. I have looked at tons of faster baja, formulas, fountains, and even an active thunder. If i needed from a boat was for it to go fast, i woul surely select a differant boat. BUt in a 24 foot boat i have yet to see one that has the space, both in the cuddy and out, the options and emenities, and some of the speed and the look of a go fast.

I am 6'4 over 300, the wife and i can easily sleep a few nights in the cuddy, when going to the island( wish it has a/c though ) fast enough that i dont get totaly skunked by other go fast boats( should be better once i get this prop issue figured out ) I would be happy seeing 53ish on my stk motor. I am more interested in the mid cruising speed since that is where i spend most of my time. I would like to 30ish at like 3000 not the 3500 i am at now.

but i love how it handles the very choppy waves on lake erie. as alot know a good 4 footer on erie can have a good bite to them. and i love the options it has allowing me to stay on the island easier ( fridge, pressure water, potty, shore power )

plus having the space to do some fishing for 2 to 3 ppl with comfort is another plus. so is seating for 6 adults in the seats, and room between the rear seats and captins chairs for others if need