Rough water: 32 skater vs 38 TG, at what point does the 32 loose it's edge??
07-27-2013, 05:20 PM
#41
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Buy a 36 skater and forget about it, coming out of an outerlimits into a Skater was the best move I could have made. The skater is fast, strong, smooth, efficient, and an absolute blast to drive. My only regret for the switch was waiting as long as I did. If you use your cabin and don't have another boat for the wife to piss in on the off season and retreat to the AC in August, than you have a big problem.
07-27-2013, 05:29 PM
#42
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Buy a 36 skater and forget about it, coming out of an outerlimits into a Skater was the best move I could have made. The skater is fast, strong, smooth, efficient, and an absolute blast to drive. My only regret for the switch was waiting as long as I did. If you use your cabin and don't have another boat for the wife to piss in on the off season and retreat to the AC in August, than you have a big problem.
07-27-2013, 11:42 PM
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I have to concur with Carrera1.......except I will add that the comparison might be differently viewed if the TOP GUN had Staggered 700SCi's matched with NXT6 SSM's......
Every Poker Run I've ran in I've noted that most Cat's will be on the outside edges of the pack in clean water when they BLOW PAST the rest of us V's stuck in the snotty stuff.....
The other thing is.....which has been discussed in this thread is ride comfort! (Your not gonna get a much better ride at 100 GPS over 3' footers than a 38TG.)
Additionally, the speed of the boat in snotty conditions is directly proportional to the Skills (and Balls) of the driver!! That's the bottom Line!! (I've gone past many larger/heavier/faster boats in ****ty conditions.....and consequently, I've been buzzed by smaller boats with HUGE power as well!!)
I believe that Powerboat's are best enjoyed if they are matched properly with there Water.
If you boat on Lake Havasu or something similar.......a CAT is the best fit all the way baby!! (My favorite is a DCB 35 Wide Body!!)
But....If you boat on the Great Lakes or Offshore in the East Coast Salt, V's are going to give you a nicer/safer ride....and the girls (Our other "Rev-Limiters") will be MUCH happier with the ride at top speeds as well!!
It's been mentioned by others in this thread but I will end by reiterating that safety should get the highest consideration when making this comparison.
I have a pic that I will attach later (if I can I find it) of a 26' AO that was Stuffed on the St. Lawrence River, killing the driver, who was not only a seasoned Go-Fast Boater, but was an accomplished Drag Car racer and , I believe was the first guy to put NOX on a Boat Motor. (John Gossen RIP) "Nitrous John Gossen quite simply was a Friggin' Legend in Upstate New York and the 1000 Islands region....(and most probably beyond) The Tragic event occurred when, I believe, he was running along side of the Pack during the annual PRA Kinston Run which falls on A-Bay's Pirate's weekend , around the 2nd week of August. Bottom Line is this guy knew how to handle his boat and knew how to handle speed.........Yet he tragically died way to soon!! (I'm sure OSO has numerous posts on Nitrous John Gossen if your interested in learning more about his accomplishments....no doubt)
Speed in an Offshore Powerboat is only good if everyone on the vessel is having fun safely.......
I will look for the photo as it's a show's what could happen when you stuff the nose of a 26' Cat in Big Water.......
Every Poker Run I've ran in I've noted that most Cat's will be on the outside edges of the pack in clean water when they BLOW PAST the rest of us V's stuck in the snotty stuff.....
The other thing is.....which has been discussed in this thread is ride comfort! (Your not gonna get a much better ride at 100 GPS over 3' footers than a 38TG.)
Additionally, the speed of the boat in snotty conditions is directly proportional to the Skills (and Balls) of the driver!! That's the bottom Line!! (I've gone past many larger/heavier/faster boats in ****ty conditions.....and consequently, I've been buzzed by smaller boats with HUGE power as well!!)
I believe that Powerboat's are best enjoyed if they are matched properly with there Water.
If you boat on Lake Havasu or something similar.......a CAT is the best fit all the way baby!! (My favorite is a DCB 35 Wide Body!!)
But....If you boat on the Great Lakes or Offshore in the East Coast Salt, V's are going to give you a nicer/safer ride....and the girls (Our other "Rev-Limiters") will be MUCH happier with the ride at top speeds as well!!
It's been mentioned by others in this thread but I will end by reiterating that safety should get the highest consideration when making this comparison.
I have a pic that I will attach later (if I can I find it) of a 26' AO that was Stuffed on the St. Lawrence River, killing the driver, who was not only a seasoned Go-Fast Boater, but was an accomplished Drag Car racer and , I believe was the first guy to put NOX on a Boat Motor. (John Gossen RIP) "Nitrous John Gossen quite simply was a Friggin' Legend in Upstate New York and the 1000 Islands region....(and most probably beyond) The Tragic event occurred when, I believe, he was running along side of the Pack during the annual PRA Kinston Run which falls on A-Bay's Pirate's weekend , around the 2nd week of August. Bottom Line is this guy knew how to handle his boat and knew how to handle speed.........Yet he tragically died way to soon!! (I'm sure OSO has numerous posts on Nitrous John Gossen if your interested in learning more about his accomplishments....no doubt)
Speed in an Offshore Powerboat is only good if everyone on the vessel is having fun safely.......
I will look for the photo as it's a show's what could happen when you stuff the nose of a 26' Cat in Big Water.......
07-28-2013, 02:02 AM
#44
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38 Top Gun T/S......overall ride and marketability. Speed in somehat calm water, definitely goes to the 32 Skater. Would you like Merc blue or polished whipples on your TG? 
Good luck with whatever you end up with!!!
Good luck with whatever you end up with!!!
07-29-2013, 07:57 AM
#46
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Adam,
Seeing how I have a lot of time in both the 32 Skater and 38 TG and I obviously boat in the same water you do, I can tell you about 70% of the time the 32 Skater will run faster and be a lot of fun inside LIS. This is all assuming you're talking 32A rather than the larger and more expensive 32B. Once the water gets to be honest 2'-3' (forecasted for our area), the Skater really starts to let you know that it has a relatively shallow tunnel and is a lot shorter than the TG. At what point would I rather be in the TG? If conditions are 3' or more I'd much rather be in the TG.
The Skater 'might be' faster in 2'-3' water, but I can tell you at this point it's probably not safe or smart to run at 8/10's or harder and it certainly isn't comfortable to run it these waters (especially after a day of drinking, which we all tend to do). You will also be wet in these conditions and I'm also yet to be in the Skater with a female that was comfortable running the Skater even remotely hard in anything over 2' seas. When you're talking true 3'+ conditions, the 32A will beat the crap out of you, will be out of the water more than it is in, and you'll be soaked. Running hard in 3'+ water is pretty dangerous too. Inside LIS the 32A is usually fine. Going through Plum Gut or running out toward Montauk can get hairy from time to time and I honestly don't think I'd want to risk running a 32A over to Block without watching the conditions very closely. With that said, a 32A with 6's will be a lot of fun if you're out screwing around with the guys in the Sound and obviously you don't have to worry about the drives while running it hard. I should note the 32A was basically designed for OB's and is extremely tail heavy with 6's, the trans, and BB's... far from well balanced. The 32B is better suited for this setup, and the 36 is again that much better for this heavy drive train. The extra weight of the heavy drive train in the 32A will make it ride a little better than a similar OB model, but the basic hull still has the same limitations.
A 38 TG will run through any water we typically have around here and do so in more comfort, it will certainly be safer too. Insurance will be cheaper as well. When the forecast is calling for 1' or less conditions, the TG will not come close to hanging with the Skater, the 32A Skater will be a lot more fun to run. With that said, you will stay dry on the TG, you have a cabin to hang in, mix drinks, store all your crap, or even crash in if you want to stay over at Block, etc. The females almost always prefer the TG to the Skater when it comes to ride and overall comfort, and of course having a place to pee is a huge bonus for them. The much higher freeboard makes them feel a lot safer too. You can also hold more people in the TG. Overall the TG is much more practical, comfortable, and well rounded. The down side to the TG you mentioned is the POS bravos. If you want to run the TG hard and plan on doing so on a regular basis, it WILL eat drives, period. Bravos suck big time, but you know that. A TG with 6's is a great package, but also a lot more money.
The two boats are apples and oranges, you just have to decide what you want out of your next boat.
Send me a PM with your budget, I'll keep an eye out for boats that might be of interest to you.
Seeing how I have a lot of time in both the 32 Skater and 38 TG and I obviously boat in the same water you do, I can tell you about 70% of the time the 32 Skater will run faster and be a lot of fun inside LIS. This is all assuming you're talking 32A rather than the larger and more expensive 32B. Once the water gets to be honest 2'-3' (forecasted for our area), the Skater really starts to let you know that it has a relatively shallow tunnel and is a lot shorter than the TG. At what point would I rather be in the TG? If conditions are 3' or more I'd much rather be in the TG.
The Skater 'might be' faster in 2'-3' water, but I can tell you at this point it's probably not safe or smart to run at 8/10's or harder and it certainly isn't comfortable to run it these waters (especially after a day of drinking, which we all tend to do). You will also be wet in these conditions and I'm also yet to be in the Skater with a female that was comfortable running the Skater even remotely hard in anything over 2' seas. When you're talking true 3'+ conditions, the 32A will beat the crap out of you, will be out of the water more than it is in, and you'll be soaked. Running hard in 3'+ water is pretty dangerous too. Inside LIS the 32A is usually fine. Going through Plum Gut or running out toward Montauk can get hairy from time to time and I honestly don't think I'd want to risk running a 32A over to Block without watching the conditions very closely. With that said, a 32A with 6's will be a lot of fun if you're out screwing around with the guys in the Sound and obviously you don't have to worry about the drives while running it hard. I should note the 32A was basically designed for OB's and is extremely tail heavy with 6's, the trans, and BB's... far from well balanced. The 32B is better suited for this setup, and the 36 is again that much better for this heavy drive train. The extra weight of the heavy drive train in the 32A will make it ride a little better than a similar OB model, but the basic hull still has the same limitations.
A 38 TG will run through any water we typically have around here and do so in more comfort, it will certainly be safer too. Insurance will be cheaper as well. When the forecast is calling for 1' or less conditions, the TG will not come close to hanging with the Skater, the 32A Skater will be a lot more fun to run. With that said, you will stay dry on the TG, you have a cabin to hang in, mix drinks, store all your crap, or even crash in if you want to stay over at Block, etc. The females almost always prefer the TG to the Skater when it comes to ride and overall comfort, and of course having a place to pee is a huge bonus for them. The much higher freeboard makes them feel a lot safer too. You can also hold more people in the TG. Overall the TG is much more practical, comfortable, and well rounded. The down side to the TG you mentioned is the POS bravos. If you want to run the TG hard and plan on doing so on a regular basis, it WILL eat drives, period. Bravos suck big time, but you know that. A TG with 6's is a great package, but also a lot more money.
The two boats are apples and oranges, you just have to decide what you want out of your next boat.
Send me a PM with your budget, I'll keep an eye out for boats that might be of interest to you.
07-29-2013, 10:06 AM
#47
Registered
Adam,
Seeing how I have a lot of time in both the 32 Skater and 38 TG and I obviously boat in the same water you do, I can tell you about 70% of the time the 32 Skater will run faster and be a lot of fun inside LIS. This is all assuming you're talking 32A rather than the larger and more expensive 32B. Once the water gets to be honest 2'-3' (forecasted for our area), the Skater really starts to let you know that it has a relatively shallow tunnel and is a lot shorter than the TG. At what point would I rather be in the TG? If conditions are 3' or more I'd much rather be in the TG.
The Skater 'might be' faster in 2'-3' water, but I can tell you at this point it's probably not safe or smart to run at 8/10's or harder and it certainly isn't comfortable to run it these waters (especially after a day of drinking, which we all tend to do). You will also be wet in these conditions and I'm also yet to be in the Skater with a female that was comfortable running the Skater even remotely hard in anything over 2' seas. When you're talking true 3'+ conditions, the 32A will beat the crap out of you, will be out of the water more than it is in, and you'll be soaked. Running hard in 3'+ water is pretty dangerous too. Inside LIS the 32A is usually fine. Going through Plum Gut or running out toward Montauk can get hairy from time to time and I honestly don't think I'd want to risk running a 32A over to Block without watching the conditions very closely. With that said, a 32A with 6's will be a lot of fun if you're out screwing around with the guys in the Sound and obviously you don't have to worry about the drives while running it hard. I should note the 32A was basically designed for OB's and is extremely tail heavy with 6's, the trans, and BB's... far from well balanced. The 32B is better suited for this setup, and the 36 is again that much better for this heavy drive train. The extra weight of the heavy drive train in the 32A will make it ride a little better than a similar OB model, but the basic hull still has the same limitations.
A 38 TG will run through any water we typically have around here and do so in more comfort, it will certainly be safer too. Insurance will be cheaper as well. When the forecast is calling for 1' or less conditions, the TG will not come close to hanging with the Skater, the 32A Skater will be a lot more fun to run. With that said, you will stay dry on the TG, you have a cabin to hang in, mix drinks, store all your crap, or even crash in if you want to stay over at Block, etc. The females almost always prefer the TG to the Skater when it comes to ride and overall comfort, and of course having a place to pee is a huge bonus for them. The much higher freeboard makes them feel a lot safer too. You can also hold more people in the TG. Overall the TG is much more practical, comfortable, and well rounded. The down side to the TG you mentioned is the POS bravos. If you want to run the TG hard and plan on doing so on a regular basis, it WILL eat drives, period. Bravos suck big time, but you know that. A TG with 6's is a great package, but also a lot more money.
The two boats are apples and oranges, you just have to decide what you want out of your next boat.
Send me a PM with your budget, I'll keep an eye out for boats that might be of interest to you.
Seeing how I have a lot of time in both the 32 Skater and 38 TG and I obviously boat in the same water you do, I can tell you about 70% of the time the 32 Skater will run faster and be a lot of fun inside LIS. This is all assuming you're talking 32A rather than the larger and more expensive 32B. Once the water gets to be honest 2'-3' (forecasted for our area), the Skater really starts to let you know that it has a relatively shallow tunnel and is a lot shorter than the TG. At what point would I rather be in the TG? If conditions are 3' or more I'd much rather be in the TG.
The Skater 'might be' faster in 2'-3' water, but I can tell you at this point it's probably not safe or smart to run at 8/10's or harder and it certainly isn't comfortable to run it these waters (especially after a day of drinking, which we all tend to do). You will also be wet in these conditions and I'm also yet to be in the Skater with a female that was comfortable running the Skater even remotely hard in anything over 2' seas. When you're talking true 3'+ conditions, the 32A will beat the crap out of you, will be out of the water more than it is in, and you'll be soaked. Running hard in 3'+ water is pretty dangerous too. Inside LIS the 32A is usually fine. Going through Plum Gut or running out toward Montauk can get hairy from time to time and I honestly don't think I'd want to risk running a 32A over to Block without watching the conditions very closely. With that said, a 32A with 6's will be a lot of fun if you're out screwing around with the guys in the Sound and obviously you don't have to worry about the drives while running it hard. I should note the 32A was basically designed for OB's and is extremely tail heavy with 6's, the trans, and BB's... far from well balanced. The 32B is better suited for this setup, and the 36 is again that much better for this heavy drive train. The extra weight of the heavy drive train in the 32A will make it ride a little better than a similar OB model, but the basic hull still has the same limitations.
A 38 TG will run through any water we typically have around here and do so in more comfort, it will certainly be safer too. Insurance will be cheaper as well. When the forecast is calling for 1' or less conditions, the TG will not come close to hanging with the Skater, the 32A Skater will be a lot more fun to run. With that said, you will stay dry on the TG, you have a cabin to hang in, mix drinks, store all your crap, or even crash in if you want to stay over at Block, etc. The females almost always prefer the TG to the Skater when it comes to ride and overall comfort, and of course having a place to pee is a huge bonus for them. The much higher freeboard makes them feel a lot safer too. You can also hold more people in the TG. Overall the TG is much more practical, comfortable, and well rounded. The down side to the TG you mentioned is the POS bravos. If you want to run the TG hard and plan on doing so on a regular basis, it WILL eat drives, period. Bravos suck big time, but you know that. A TG with 6's is a great package, but also a lot more money.
The two boats are apples and oranges, you just have to decide what you want out of your next boat.
Send me a PM with your budget, I'll keep an eye out for boats that might be of interest to you.
Agreed on all points. A 38 V is a big load on a bravo. The 32 A and it's half brother Spectre/Motion have a narrow sponson/shallow tunnel (original design was for outboards as SS930 said). The 32 B or better yet 36 is closer to what you need.
Steve
Last edited by smiklos@sunprint; 07-29-2013 at 10:10 AM.
07-29-2013, 10:18 AM
#48
Registered
No comparision between these 2 boats.
Contour video at 134 mph 30 Skater in 3 ft seas non supercharged.
38 Cigarettes generally do not run 160 mph. 2 completely different boats.
http://contour.com/stories/30-skater-prototype--2
Contour video at 134 mph 30 Skater in 3 ft seas non supercharged.
38 Cigarettes generally do not run 160 mph. 2 completely different boats.
http://contour.com/stories/30-skater-prototype--2
07-29-2013, 10:25 AM
#49
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Point of fact...in 1981 a very talented guy named Willie Diaz won the Sport CLass (Twin injected Keith Eickhert Aluminum small blocks)Offshore National and World Championships (When that meant something) in a 36 Cigarette, "El Boss". The following winter, he bought a 30 Shadow Cat and powered it identically (Saccenti rigged both boats). He kept both boats for the following season thinking he would use the Cig in "rough" races, of which there were plenty in those days ( Great Lakes and Atlantic Ocean with 30 mile laps and races all over 100 miles in length.... He thought he might use the cat for a few calmer days. He tried the cat in the first race in New Orleans on Lake Pontchartrain (again 30+ mi laps)......and never raced the Cigarette again. He won the World and National Championships again that year and the videos of that boat are legendary.....
To me the real question is not if the cat is better...it is whether you can handle it in a reasonable fashion instead of pushing it over its limit to try and demolish some guy in a slower Vee. Simply go one mph faster and shortly you will be well away from him.....
Nuff said..
T2x
Last edited by T2x; 07-29-2013 at 10:31 AM.
07-29-2013, 10:30 AM
#50
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Here is 2-3 ft chop at speed in a 32B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbv5uN-K974
This is about 19 miles in about 9.5 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbv5uN-K974
This is about 19 miles in about 9.5 minutes
