Cms slingshots start 1st race kw hits 2 boats
#31
Registered
Sorry mike a at the end of the day as someone alluded to earlier the rules of the road apply.
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent
Particularly rule 13. Overtaking another vessel. There are a series of photos which clearly show the cms boat coming from the rear and that instantly puts him at fault unless one of the other vessels made an obvious course change which by trailing wake didn't happen. So no I don't need on board vids and what not else.
I have not raced and would love too but I do know a little something about boats and colregs.
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent
Particularly rule 13. Overtaking another vessel. There are a series of photos which clearly show the cms boat coming from the rear and that instantly puts him at fault unless one of the other vessels made an obvious course change which by trailing wake didn't happen. So no I don't need on board vids and what not else.
I have not raced and would love too but I do know a little something about boats and colregs.
#32
Registered
Pretty clear from the picture they barged through the center, I see no signs of attempting to go around. Just because its racing doesn't mean you have the right to ram your way past someone, IMO they should have been DQ'd from the race, toddled out of the pits and sent home. KW has had to many tragedies to allow this type of **** to go on..
#33
Registered
Sorry ICU Looking, there is no way to conclude anything from this photograph, other than the Fountain and CMS collided. The photo also suggests that the three boats were on totally different lines. In fact, you can see that the outside chine of the port sponson on A&A is in contact with the water which suggests it was turning to starboard.
To know what happened you would need onboard video from the three boats. Video from inside the cockpit of CMS would give the best perspective. My best guess is that there was a clear hole between the Fountain and A&A, CMS attempted to charge through it at a much higher rate of speed to get to the pace boat, the A&A crew unwittingly closed the hole by drifting over to their right without checking their mirrors, they hit, and knocked CMS into the Fountain.
At the end of the day, the fault lies with the starter. You cannot throw the green before all of the boats are on the line, especially if there is a huge disparity between the top speeds and acceleration rates of the boats in the start. Just think about it. The pace boat takes off and throws the green right away before all the boats are in line - which it did. You have a top team in CMS that can accelerate to 150mph in the blink of an eye and they pour the coals to the motors to catch up to the other boats. They pick a line between A&A and the Fountain and go. At first there is plenty of room, but suddenly A&A moves over, perhaps to avoid the wake of the other CMS, perhaps because they think the old dog leg right leaving the harbor to turn 1 is still there, or maybe just because. Regardless, if they do not check their mirrors, or their spotter does not say anything before moving over, and CMS is already up to speed, then a collision is going to occur. Shoot, there could have been a 20-50 mph speed difference between the boats at the time, and with no brakes a collision would be unavoidable.
Knowing what I know, that scenario seems far more likely than a 12' wide CMS just trying to blast its way through a 10' wide space between two boats just 'cause. Hopefully, tomorrow the starters will be more patient. Let everyone line up before throwing the green.
To know what happened you would need onboard video from the three boats. Video from inside the cockpit of CMS would give the best perspective. My best guess is that there was a clear hole between the Fountain and A&A, CMS attempted to charge through it at a much higher rate of speed to get to the pace boat, the A&A crew unwittingly closed the hole by drifting over to their right without checking their mirrors, they hit, and knocked CMS into the Fountain.
At the end of the day, the fault lies with the starter. You cannot throw the green before all of the boats are on the line, especially if there is a huge disparity between the top speeds and acceleration rates of the boats in the start. Just think about it. The pace boat takes off and throws the green right away before all the boats are in line - which it did. You have a top team in CMS that can accelerate to 150mph in the blink of an eye and they pour the coals to the motors to catch up to the other boats. They pick a line between A&A and the Fountain and go. At first there is plenty of room, but suddenly A&A moves over, perhaps to avoid the wake of the other CMS, perhaps because they think the old dog leg right leaving the harbor to turn 1 is still there, or maybe just because. Regardless, if they do not check their mirrors, or their spotter does not say anything before moving over, and CMS is already up to speed, then a collision is going to occur. Shoot, there could have been a 20-50 mph speed difference between the boats at the time, and with no brakes a collision would be unavoidable.
Knowing what I know, that scenario seems far more likely than a 12' wide CMS just trying to blast its way through a 10' wide space between two boats just 'cause. Hopefully, tomorrow the starters will be more patient. Let everyone line up before throwing the green.
#34
Registered
LOL. Uh, federal rules of the road do not apply to offshore powerboat racing, number one. Number two, where are the "series of photographs" you refer to because they would be helpful. Number three, you might not want to see the video to draw your conclusions but anyone truly wanting to know what happened would definitely want to as video would be THE best evidence. Because as you acknowledge, if one of the other two boats made a drastic coursechange then that crew is at least partially at fault. Good discussion though.
http://superboat.com/wp-content/uplo...es-3-4-141.pdf
Sbi rules. Page 42. Section E #2. Clearly states leaving room in a passing (formerly overtaking) situation.
This picture shows the cms behind the fountain at least. Damage on the A&A boat is on stbd quarter. All pretty convincing that CMS pushed up in the middle of those 2.
#35
Registered
I think it was a brilliant move. Eliminate two boats right out of the gate.
carry on
carry on
#36
Registered
ballzie maneuver,just glad it its only damaged fiberglass.pics are a great photo op.
#37
Registered
So who pushed them? The boat on the outside of them, which I believe was JT and Jeff Harris, is the only one that could have, but I have not heard anyone claim that is what happened and there has been no video showing that either. Again, I have been doing accident construction for many, many, years and there is no competent person who can determine what happened in an accident from a single photograph. Also, having run a sanctioning body before, I can tell you that you cannot throw someone out of the event without conducting a full review of all the evidence. It is not an easy thing to do I can assure you. But the one thing you can't do is make a rash decision based on one picture.
Last edited by Mike A.; 11-07-2014 at 10:40 AM.
#40
Registered
Great discussion.
http://superboat.com/wp-content/uplo...es-3-4-141.pdf
Sbi rules. Page 42. Section E #2. Clearly states leaving room in a passing (formerly overtaking) situation.
This picture shows the cms behind the fountain at least. Damage on the A&A boat is on stbd quarter. All pretty convincing that CMS pushed up in the middle of those 2.
http://superboat.com/wp-content/uplo...es-3-4-141.pdf
Sbi rules. Page 42. Section E #2. Clearly states leaving room in a passing (formerly overtaking) situation.
This picture shows the cms behind the fountain at least. Damage on the A&A boat is on stbd quarter. All pretty convincing that CMS pushed up in the middle of those 2.
Again, a single photo shows nothing except what it shows in that precise moment of time. You cannot draw any legitimate conclusions as to what led up to the picture. That is why the best evidence is video.