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Start to Finish: Building Our 50' Skater

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Old 04-03-2016, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by I'CE
Tyson, will there be protection ie: A screen on the suction side before the scavenging pump and/or a filter after it protecting the cooler, the external main storage tank etc. before the fluid is returned to the transmission?
Yes there will be screens and the valve body has a screw on filter on it.
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Old 04-03-2016, 06:17 AM
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talk about letting the world know what your up too...51 pages (+ going strong) and the hull is still with Peter.... Most impressive..TYFS!!
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Old 04-03-2016, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BigSilverCat
We are still doing tuning on it. The power band of the cam and turbo we had was too high in rpm for doing endurance runs, so we are redoing some stuff then go back to the dyno again this week. We want to be in the 1200 HP range at 4000 rpm but right now were at 950 hp that low in the rpm and the peak power is too high in rpm. Were going to try some different injectors and turbos this week. Maybe a cam change.

Our plan is when we get it tuned the way we want were going to do a 10 hour continuous wide open pull to see what happens, if we end up doing it I will put it live on here were everyone can log in and watch to see if it scatters or lives.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]553409[/ATTACH]
That is awesome. Are you tuning wth EFI live? I'd love to throw that into my Dually. I thought I had impressive duramax numbers at 586HP/ 1,106 TQ @ rear wheels or 733HP/ 1,383 TQ @ crank! 1200 HP at 10 hours of WOT would be truly amazing.

Amazing thread and project! When do you anticipate it to be ready for first water test?
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:44 PM
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I don't think his engines are Duramax more like Enhanced - Tyson MAX Great build, and thread.

Last edited by I'CE; 04-03-2016 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:52 PM
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Here's the Speed On The Water article on the motors - Wagler

http://speedonthewater.com/new-boats...er-at-pri-show
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by BigSilverCat
We want to be in the 1200 HP range at 4000 rpm but right now were at 950 hp that low in the rpm and the peak power is too high in rpm. Were going to try some different injectors and turbos this week. Maybe a cam change.
950 @ 4000 would be a good realistic goal to survive 10 hour fully loaded. Would be a new world record right there. When ever I've brought up making 1000+ hold at WOT all day, every record holding Dmax engine builder I've spoken to over past 5 years told me I was on drugs. Some of those guys even own boats.. It's not a money thing, its like some magical cast iron SB limit. Even concrete filled they go> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83wqTkDYwOo

On tuning options, you do know that M15 Bosch ECM will correctly manage twin VNT's right?
That's the #1 advantage of that 5k ECM vs a std GM unit. And reason I've been dying to test one out. I posted this twin VNT turbo in a boat question to a couple Dmax forums last year. But keeping them in sync was the main concern, along with lack of any real world data on true twins. Truck pullers only need compounds.

Take a look at the new Audi A8 TDI or VW Touareg v10 TDI twin turbo. The German diesel guru's figured out couple years back that twin VNT would out perform a big single or compounds across the total RPM range. So hasn't Merc you notice.. A pair of big T3 or medium T4 variable nozzle twin scrolls will light quicker, providing low end torque to get your 20k lbs up on top the water without smoking like a cruise ship. Then that ECM opens those puppies up and they will flow more air than any T6. Thus dropping your EGT's into sub 1500F range at WOT.

Study the VW data vs the builds Banks has done running twin non VNT's making 1000hp and let me know what you think. Bosch is fueling every modern diesel built today for good reason.
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by kidturbo
950 @ 4000 would be a good realistic goal to survive 10 hour fully loaded. Would be a new world record right there. When ever I've brought up making 1000+ hold at WOT all day, every record holding Dmax engine builder I've spoken to over past 5 years told me I was on drugs..
I get told I'm on drugs almost everyday since I was 5 years old with the crazy things I want to try to build.

Originally Posted by kidturbo
On tuning options, you do know that M15 Bosch ECM will correctly manage twin VNT's right?.
We are using the M15 Bosch.

Originally Posted by kidturbo
That's the #1 advantage of that 5k ECM vs a std GM unit. And reason I've been dying to test one out. I posted this twin VNT turbo in a boat question to a couple Dmax forums last year..
I think Bosch has a smaller diesel ecm that is in the $5k range, it will not do some of the options we want, but I think the MS15.1 is closer to $15K. They are supposed to be coming out with a new one that is going to be more affordable. The factory ecm would probably be the best to use if we did not want to be able to do as many things as we want or turn as high of rpm as we are.

Originally Posted by kidturbo
But keeping them in sync was the main concern, along with lack of any real world data on true twins. Truck pullers only need compounds..
I have done a lot of testing in a boat with twin turbos that have speed sensors on them, they definitely are never in sync. Under a constant load and boat speed they would continuously speed up and down a lot individually. We tried crossover pipes and a lot of other things and they were basically always fighting each other, which over a long period of time makes them less efficient.

Originally Posted by kidturbo
Take a look at the new Audi A8 TDI or VW Touareg v10 TDI twin turbo. The German diesel guru's figured out couple years back that twin VNT would out perform a big single or compounds across the total RPM range. So hasn't Merc you notice.. A pair of big T3 or medium T4 variable nozzle twin scrolls will light quicker, providing low end torque to get your 20k lbs up on top the water without smoking like a cruise ship. Then that ECM opens those puppies up and they will flow more air than any T6. Thus dropping your EGT's into sub 1500F range at WOT. .
Vgt's and Vnt's technically would be better to use if they worked right. It would get on plane easier and also have a better top end. But, there are problems with them also. We have had VW diesels with VNT turbos on a boat doing an endurance run and them breaking about killed us. We kept having problems with the turbos 600 miles from shore to the point that we were almost stuck out there. They had already been replaced several times before we made that run so we knew they might be a problem.
If we do something different it will probably be a compound setup, which has issues also. When we start testing the boat it might jump right on plane with no problems like it is with a single big turbo. But if not we will try compounds, vnt, or just put Nitrous on it.

Originally Posted by kidturbo
Study the VW data vs the builds Banks has done running twin non VNT's making 1000hp and let me know what you think. Bosch is fueling every modern diesel built today for good reason.
I talked to Banks a lot about there marine duramax's.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]553519[/ATTACH]
Attached Thumbnails Start to Finish: Building Our 50' Skater-bosch.jpg  

Last edited by Cash Bar; 04-15-2016 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:07 PM
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I think for improving turbo spooling you need to limit the manifold size, keep heat in, and multiple smaller turbos which have less inertia to overcome helps too.

Something to look into is making manifolds with an airgap passage between the water cooling and the exhaust gas to keep the exhaust gases hotter. The last time we designed a boat diesel from the ground up multiple identical turbos with a gate that opens to the second turbo after the first is spooled was the silver bullet. The boat manufacturers loved but told us to slow down the spool because they didn't want people flying off the back of the flybridges on 70' sporties.

We didn't do VNT on them
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:24 PM
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Sequential turbos. The term escaped me, too many cocktails yesterday.
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Old 04-04-2016, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BigSilverCat

I have done a lot of testing in a boat with twin turbos that have speed sensors on them, they definitely are never in sync. Under a constant load and boat speed they would continuously speed up and down a lot individually. We tried crossover pipes and a lot of other things and they were basically always fighting each other, which over a long period of time makes them less efficient.
First off WOW, by far coolest build I have seen on any fourm!!!!! NICE JOB. I'm alot like you and build all my own stuff, I have mad respect for you and your craftsmanship.

I have a question about your testing with "true" twins. How do you go about setting wastegates with them, and what other info would you care to share about twin set-up. I'm just about done building a twin turbo LS motor for a boat and this is one thing I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around is "how do you keep each turbo equally". Any insight would be great appericated.



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