Sunsation 43 f4
08-18-2018, 04:18 PM
#41
Registered
The only time you see a I/O performance boat in Florida is when there is a poker run in town.
Shogren, Pier 57 I guess couldn't keep enough used performance boats in stock! Formula just phased out the 292 Fastech due to low demand. Nortech/Sunsation stopped I/O production completely due to no demand. AT is trying to sell their I/O demo from 2014, yet they have built a few OB boats and they are delivered. If this is the market for new then it is only a matter of time before the demand dries up in the used end also. Once the banks stop financing the used I/O or ins. companies stop insuring it stuff due to age then that market is done forever.
Look at the Apaches, the most legendary boat ever built yet they languish in the classifieds for years.....that 41 for 85K is a ton of boat for the money!
Shogren, Pier 57 I guess couldn't keep enough used performance boats in stock! Formula just phased out the 292 Fastech due to low demand. Nortech/Sunsation stopped I/O production completely due to no demand. AT is trying to sell their I/O demo from 2014, yet they have built a few OB boats and they are delivered. If this is the market for new then it is only a matter of time before the demand dries up in the used end also. Once the banks stop financing the used I/O or ins. companies stop insuring it stuff due to age then that market is done forever.
Look at the Apaches, the most legendary boat ever built yet they languish in the classifieds for years.....that 41 for 85K is a ton of boat for the money!
I can not tell you why Formula stopped making the 292( I would guess their out of this world price),not sure what A/T is doing ,but with all respect to them I never thought of them as a game changer,just a low volume builder ,and that has been the case from the beginning,as a matter of fact they started building boats about 2 miles from my house ,
Sunsation in my opinion was in a tough spot with the 43,,might be a great boat which I am sure it is ,but most people laying down that kind of money would rather go with a name brand if you will!
as for Shogren/Pier 57,,they were located about 15 minutes from my house and a big sponsor or the boat club we belong to,he held many meetings at his shop ,they had no problem turning over inventory,at times his problem was he did not have enough used inventory thats why he always ran ads looking for used performance boat,but dont be mistaken ,,just because someone closes the door it does not mean they went out of business,,
as for Florida,,well you would know better than me,but I have been visiting Florida twice a year for 25 + years and I have always been disappointed at the number of performance boat,that to me has always been white center console land!
and I have a feeling the banks will be there to finance boats,because that is how they make money,
All I can tell you my area and LOTO have no issues selling Perf Boats
08-18-2018, 04:35 PM
#42
Registered
I know you like to reference a lot of people/names in your replies and thats fine,
I can not tell you why Formula stopped making the 292( I would guess their out of this world price),not sure what A/T is doing ,but with all respect to them I never thought of them as a game changer,just a low volume builder ,and that has been the case from the beginning,as a matter of fact they started building boats about 2 miles from my house ,
Sunsation in my opinion was in a tough spot with the 43,,might be a great boat which I am sure it is ,but most people laying down that kind of money would rather go with a name brand if you will!
as for Shogren/Pier 57,,they were located about 15 minutes from my house and a big sponsor or the boat club we belong to,he held many meetings at his shop ,they had no problem turning over inventory,at times his problem was he did not have enough used inventory thats why he always ran ads looking for used performance boat,but dont be mistaken ,,just because someone closes the door it does not mean they went out of business,,
as for Florida,,well you would know better than me,but I have been visiting Florida twice a year for 25 + years and I have always been disappointed at the number of performance boat,that to me has always been white center console land!
and I have a feeling the banks will be there to finance boats,because that is how they make money,
All I can tell you my area and LOTO have no issues selling Perf Boats
I can not tell you why Formula stopped making the 292( I would guess their out of this world price),not sure what A/T is doing ,but with all respect to them I never thought of them as a game changer,just a low volume builder ,and that has been the case from the beginning,as a matter of fact they started building boats about 2 miles from my house ,
Sunsation in my opinion was in a tough spot with the 43,,might be a great boat which I am sure it is ,but most people laying down that kind of money would rather go with a name brand if you will!
as for Shogren/Pier 57,,they were located about 15 minutes from my house and a big sponsor or the boat club we belong to,he held many meetings at his shop ,they had no problem turning over inventory,at times his problem was he did not have enough used inventory thats why he always ran ads looking for used performance boat,but dont be mistaken ,,just because someone closes the door it does not mean they went out of business,,
as for Florida,,well you would know better than me,but I have been visiting Florida twice a year for 25 + years and I have always been disappointed at the number of performance boat,that to me has always been white center console land!
and I have a feeling the banks will be there to finance boats,because that is how they make money,
All I can tell you my area and LOTO have no issues selling Perf Boats
08-18-2018, 08:47 PM
#43
Registered
They didn't "give up the powerboat market"..............it simply evaporated! I bet they didn't build three I/O boats in the previous 2 years. The CC's are whats selling so if you want to build boats you better build what will sell. Sunsation/Nortech/Cig would be out of business if they didn't focus on the hot CC market. How many Cig I/O boats have you seen in the last year? Fountain? Donzi?
Now imagine owning a 10 yr old I/O boat and wanting to sell it to a market that isn't buying!
Now imagine owning a 10 yr old I/O boat and wanting to sell it to a market that isn't buying!
08-19-2018, 07:19 AM
#44
Registered
It's not that the market has dried up for powerboats it's that they have priced them out of reach for the younger crowd. The only reason the c/c market is so hot is the older crowd is getting out and moving on to the c/c market to be able to boat in the shade and for the most part the only ones that can afford the c/c. The c/c market will fold to, look how many are forsale only after a few years .
I can understand the the lack of powerboats in fl after boating there for a week.
I can understand the the lack of powerboats in fl after boating there for a week.
08-19-2018, 03:18 PM
#45
It's not that the market has dried up for powerboats it's that they have priced them out of reach for the younger crowd. The only reason the c/c market is so hot is the older crowd is getting out and moving on to the c/c market to be able to boat in the shade and for the most part the only ones that can afford the c/c. The c/c market will fold to, look how many are forsale only after a few years .
I can understand the the lack of powerboats in fl after boating there for a week.
I can understand the the lack of powerboats in fl after boating there for a week.
08-19-2018, 03:27 PM
#46
Remember this thread from 4 years ago:
Market Analysis Game.......500K to spend
Hypothetical 500K to spend on any boat, new/used and after you sell it you get to keep the proceeds.......first 18 pages NO ONE picked a new performance I/O. Page 19 someone picked a 33 AT I/O but I think he mentioned that to break the streak.
If people won't spend free money on a new boat then it will be very tough to do in real life with actual dollars. In years past you could trade in/out of boats for very little money. There were FPC members that got new boats annually, literally taking delivery and ordering the next one. The used values were strong due to the demand and if you were paying with a loan then you only made a dozen payments and moved on to the next one without ever being out of warranty or paying for expensive rebuilds.
Sure there are rich guys that buy new Rolls Royces, new I/O boats and take the harsh depreciation but I think that is a very small segment of the market. If you can buy an OB CC or cat that goes 80% as fast as an I/O boat but loses less money in ownership/operational costs then why not just go that direction. I think the industry saw that switch and started focusing on those buyers. There are plenty of lightly used I/O stuff left out there for the buyers that want the rumble.
Market Analysis Game.......500K to spend
Hypothetical 500K to spend on any boat, new/used and after you sell it you get to keep the proceeds.......first 18 pages NO ONE picked a new performance I/O. Page 19 someone picked a 33 AT I/O but I think he mentioned that to break the streak.
If people won't spend free money on a new boat then it will be very tough to do in real life with actual dollars. In years past you could trade in/out of boats for very little money. There were FPC members that got new boats annually, literally taking delivery and ordering the next one. The used values were strong due to the demand and if you were paying with a loan then you only made a dozen payments and moved on to the next one without ever being out of warranty or paying for expensive rebuilds.
Sure there are rich guys that buy new Rolls Royces, new I/O boats and take the harsh depreciation but I think that is a very small segment of the market. If you can buy an OB CC or cat that goes 80% as fast as an I/O boat but loses less money in ownership/operational costs then why not just go that direction. I think the industry saw that switch and started focusing on those buyers. There are plenty of lightly used I/O stuff left out there for the buyers that want the rumble.
08-19-2018, 05:00 PM
#47
Registered
Remember this thread from 4 years ago:
Market Analysis Game.......500K to spend
Hypothetical 500K to spend on any boat, new/used and after you sell it you get to keep the proceeds.......first 18 pages NO ONE picked a new performance I/O. Page 19 someone picked a 33 AT I/O but I think he mentioned that to break the streak.
If people won't spend free money on a new boat then it will be very tough to do in real life with actual dollars. In years past you could trade in/out of boats for very little money. There were FPC members that got new boats annually, literally taking delivery and ordering the next one. The used values were strong due to the demand and if you were paying with a loan then you only made a dozen payments and moved on to the next one without ever being out of warranty or paying for expensive rebuilds.
Sure there are rich guys that buy new Rolls Royces, new I/O boats and take the harsh depreciation but I think that is a very small segment of the market. If you can buy an OB CC or cat that goes 80% as fast as an I/O boat but loses less money in ownership/operational costs then why not just go that direction. I think the industry saw that switch and started focusing on those buyers. There are plenty of lightly used I/O stuff left out there for the buyers that want the rumble.
Market Analysis Game.......500K to spend
Hypothetical 500K to spend on any boat, new/used and after you sell it you get to keep the proceeds.......first 18 pages NO ONE picked a new performance I/O. Page 19 someone picked a 33 AT I/O but I think he mentioned that to break the streak.
If people won't spend free money on a new boat then it will be very tough to do in real life with actual dollars. In years past you could trade in/out of boats for very little money. There were FPC members that got new boats annually, literally taking delivery and ordering the next one. The used values were strong due to the demand and if you were paying with a loan then you only made a dozen payments and moved on to the next one without ever being out of warranty or paying for expensive rebuilds.
Sure there are rich guys that buy new Rolls Royces, new I/O boats and take the harsh depreciation but I think that is a very small segment of the market. If you can buy an OB CC or cat that goes 80% as fast as an I/O boat but loses less money in ownership/operational costs then why not just go that direction. I think the industry saw that switch and started focusing on those buyers. There are plenty of lightly used I/O stuff left out there for the buyers that want the rumble.
We have been thinking about moving up but when you already have a nice boat and the inventory is so lean it's hard to do. I was thinking of a 38 fountain lighting but after driving one I was not that impressed.
08-19-2018, 05:30 PM
#48
Registered
I think another issue is the price of the powerboats, as someone said above formula quite making the 292 but that price was 190k for a 29 ft boat, My buddy bought a 2004-2005 288 with a 525 in it for in the 90s brand new. So by the looks of it the price of boats have double but wages have not and not to mention the price of the truck to pull it and the cost of housing.
08-20-2018, 07:38 AM
#49
Registered
Hmmm, not sure why it's showing page not found since I cut and pasted from it. Try this instead, it is the link to page 80.
New 43 Sunsation F4 - pictures
New 43 Sunsation F4 - pictures
08-20-2018, 08:24 AM
#50
I think another issue is the price of the powerboats, as someone said above formula quite making the 292 but that price was 190k for a 29 ft boat, My buddy bought a 2004-2005 288 with a 525 in it for in the 90s brand new. So by the looks of it the price of boats have double but wages have not and not to mention the price of the truck to pull it and the cost of housing.
Lets say the factory needs 200K for fixed overhead (just to open the factory, keep the lights on). If they make 100 boats a year then each boat needs to contribute 2K towards fixed overhead. So if the boat itself costs 80K to make, they need to charge 82K to cover all the costs. Drop production from 100 boats to 10......now those 10 boats need to contribute 20K each to cover all the costs. Now that same boat a year later costs 100K instead of 82K. Add in suppliers forced to raise their prices for the same reason and suddenly 2 years after that boat cost 82, now it is 120K!
I bought a brand new Duramax 2500 SLE crew cab 2WD (cloth buckets, bose radio) as a leftover in late 2003 for 32K (sticker was 43). Try to find that truck new today for double that!
