Manatee Madness Rally
12-03-2002, 08:54 AM
#21
Charter Member
Charter Member
Still,
Of that 1% of Manatee lovers, do you know how many of them live local, or live on the water there in Ft. Myers? I bet you'll find very few, if any, live there! In the past, the $MC has been known to BUS in supporters, to make their #'s greater!!!! And you have found the truth, the Manatee is nothing more than a TOOL to control growth along the inland waterways in FL.
Sounds like a real good showing for the boaters/waterfront property owners, hopefully, we can do the same tomorrow!
MD
Of that 1% of Manatee lovers, do you know how many of them live local, or live on the water there in Ft. Myers? I bet you'll find very few, if any, live there! In the past, the $MC has been known to BUS in supporters, to make their #'s greater!!!! And you have found the truth, the Manatee is nothing more than a TOOL to control growth along the inland waterways in FL.
Sounds like a real good showing for the boaters/waterfront property owners, hopefully, we can do the same tomorrow!
MD
12-03-2002, 02:58 PM
#22
Charter Member
Charter Member
Fresh from the Fl. Sportsman site! More $MC LIES!!
SMC Study Flawed
Do manatee zones increase property value? No, according to an article in the November issue of Citizens For Florida’s Waterways. Brevard County Property Appraiser Jim Ford said the study published by Save the Manatee Club that claimed higher values for manatee zones in Broward County had several major problems.
"Two of three test models showed manatee zones had a negative impact on value," Ford stresses. "Housing values declined around highly restrictive manatee zones. Data itself was also suspect. For example, a 1,020 square-foot home was said to have more than five bedrooms and four baths. The SMC report ignored standard research procedures in order to produce favorable results."
We should not be surprised. SMC propaganda rarely hinges on scientifically verified facts or figures.
How these $MC people get away with all these LIES is beyond me! Not only that, but when they SUE the FL. State and US Fed. gov'ts and OUR tax dollars are spent trying to defend these BS lawsuits!
MD
SMC Study Flawed
Do manatee zones increase property value? No, according to an article in the November issue of Citizens For Florida’s Waterways. Brevard County Property Appraiser Jim Ford said the study published by Save the Manatee Club that claimed higher values for manatee zones in Broward County had several major problems.
"Two of three test models showed manatee zones had a negative impact on value," Ford stresses. "Housing values declined around highly restrictive manatee zones. Data itself was also suspect. For example, a 1,020 square-foot home was said to have more than five bedrooms and four baths. The SMC report ignored standard research procedures in order to produce favorable results."
We should not be surprised. SMC propaganda rarely hinges on scientifically verified facts or figures.
How these $MC people get away with all these LIES is beyond me! Not only that, but when they SUE the FL. State and US Fed. gov'ts and OUR tax dollars are spent trying to defend these BS lawsuits!
MD
12-03-2002, 05:18 PM
#23
Charter Member #71
Charter Member
I attended and was not real impressed.
Ive been thru this BS before with the spotted owl fiasco in the Northwest and saw what the gov't can do to an industry as large as the lumber industry. If you think some guy in the Cape wanting to put a dock by his house has more pull then Georgia Pacific or Weyerhauser, guess again. Those guys from the FWS were just flunkys puttin on a dog and pony show for the masses.
The only way unfortunetly for anything thing to happen is to get our Reps in DC to get behind this and put pressure on the state as well. We need to have affective lobbisits, and money!!! Last resort is to keep sueing the bastards untill they back down some, but the cats out of the bag now folks, and the enviro *******s are gonna keep after it, and no matter what, they'll get something approved now and go for more later.
Having said that...I have no intention of giving up..writing letters and helping were I can.
Now its the snowmobiles there after too. It never Fu..in ends!!!!
As you can tell Dean..this **** pisses me off
Dan
Ive been thru this BS before with the spotted owl fiasco in the Northwest and saw what the gov't can do to an industry as large as the lumber industry. If you think some guy in the Cape wanting to put a dock by his house has more pull then Georgia Pacific or Weyerhauser, guess again. Those guys from the FWS were just flunkys puttin on a dog and pony show for the masses.
The only way unfortunetly for anything thing to happen is to get our Reps in DC to get behind this and put pressure on the state as well. We need to have affective lobbisits, and money!!! Last resort is to keep sueing the bastards untill they back down some, but the cats out of the bag now folks, and the enviro *******s are gonna keep after it, and no matter what, they'll get something approved now and go for more later.
Having said that...I have no intention of giving up..writing letters and helping were I can.
Now its the snowmobiles there after too. It never Fu..in ends!!!!
As you can tell Dean..this **** pisses me off
Dan
12-04-2002, 06:11 AM
#24
Charter Member
Charter Member
DanB
I feel your frustration! Don't let this get you down because the thing about this for you, I and every other Water Front property owner in Fl, is we have a GREAT deal to lose here, not to mention our boat investment $$! The enormous amount of Property taxes that we pay to live on the water, not to mention the $$ we have invested in our HOMES, could go UP and DOWN respectively!
I think we are making a DENT in the $MC propaganda machine, and we, CFW, have sued the state and Fed. Gov't and will continue to sue/fight this till the bitter end! We need to continue to support Standing-Watch, and CFW with our $$ and participation @ these events!
And you are correct, we need to continue to write our state/fed Representives and tell them that we will HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE for this happening in their districts by how we vote @ the polls next election! In that small way, we are more powerful than GP or Weyerhauser! I'll report tommorrow how our meeting goes tonight.
MD
I feel your frustration! Don't let this get you down because the thing about this for you, I and every other Water Front property owner in Fl, is we have a GREAT deal to lose here, not to mention our boat investment $$! The enormous amount of Property taxes that we pay to live on the water, not to mention the $$ we have invested in our HOMES, could go UP and DOWN respectively!
I think we are making a DENT in the $MC propaganda machine, and we, CFW, have sued the state and Fed. Gov't and will continue to sue/fight this till the bitter end! We need to continue to support Standing-Watch, and CFW with our $$ and participation @ these events!
And you are correct, we need to continue to write our state/fed Representives and tell them that we will HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE for this happening in their districts by how we vote @ the polls next election! In that small way, we are more powerful than GP or Weyerhauser! I'll report tommorrow how our meeting goes tonight.
MD
12-04-2002, 06:47 AM
#25
Charter Member
Charter Member
Found this on www.Standing-watch.org! The feds admit that the reason they are adding these ADDITIONAL Zones because of the $MC Lawsuit, not SCIENCE!
http://www.news-press.com/news/local...nateesnit.html
"We’re dealing with a river that has had only 11 watercraft mortalities in 30 years, and none in the last three years. So all those regulations the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission put in place were on a river without a problem."
We lost Skyes Creek, where we live to the State and Feds this year in which records show 1 MANATEE boat related mortality in 27 years!!!!!!
MD
http://www.news-press.com/news/local...nateesnit.html
"We’re dealing with a river that has had only 11 watercraft mortalities in 30 years, and none in the last three years. So all those regulations the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission put in place were on a river without a problem."
We lost Skyes Creek, where we live to the State and Feds this year in which records show 1 MANATEE boat related mortality in 27 years!!!!!!
MD
Last edited by Dean Ferry; 12-04-2002 at 06:59 AM.
12-04-2002, 09:28 AM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
We can stand back and see a mountain to climb and say it's too tall or we can start to climb it......step by step. It was only the boaters that cried foul but now they have stepped on many other toes and that is why I viewed the meeting a little more positive. The effect of the meeting on the outcome....very little, but it's ONE STEP.
12-04-2002, 10:27 AM
#27
Charter Member
Charter Member
More update from the meeting!
Manatee rules hearing draws 2,500
A turnout of more than 2,500 people at the first of seven public hearings being held in Florida on the latest federal manatee protection plan should be “an eye opener” for the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, one of the industry’s leading activists said this morning.
“The people aren’t going to roll over and take it,” Jim Kalvin, president of the Florida Water Access Coalition, said in a telephone interview.
The Access Coalition is made up of several state and national organizations, including the Marine Industries Association of Florida, the Personal Watercraft Industry Association, the National Marine Manufacturers Association, USA WaterSki, Florida Marine Contractors Association, Florida Council of Yacht Clubs, Florida Yacht Brokers Association and Standing Watch
Most of those who showed up for the meeting at Harborside Convention Hall in Fort Myers opposed the plan, Kalvin says. The meeting began at 6 p.m. and was scheduled to run until 9, but was extended until 10 p.m. to allow more people to speak.
An array of signs, t-shirts, flags and banners bore slogans such as, “Docks don’t kill manatees,” and Kalvin says a marine supply truck filled with “loads of pilings and timber” was parked outside.
The manatee protection plan, which was released in November, calls for a five-year moratorium on boat ramp, dock and marina construction throughout Southwest Florida — an area encompassing Lee, Collier, Pasco, Monroe, DeSoto, Glades and Hendry counties.
The rule is scheduled to take effect in May, following the required public comment period that began with Monday’s hearing. Six more hearings are scheduled.
Kalvin, who also founded the boating coalition Standing Watch, describes Monday’s turnout as “phenomenal.” He says he was impressed not only with the number of people who spoke out in opposition (more than 300), but with their awareness of the issues.
“[The speakers] weren’t just up there making noise because they were upset,” he said, calling them “well informed.”
Even after the extension to 10 p.m., there were more people who wanted to speak but couldn’t because time had run out, he says.
In the two and a half hours he was present, Kalvin says he only heard two people say they supported the plan, one of whom he says was “very uninformed” on the issue of manatee survival rates.
“She thinks manatees are going extinct,” Kalvin says. “She had no clue.”
The other supporter was primarily concerned about new construction causing too much boat traffic in the area, an issue Kalvin says can be remedied other ways besides issuing a blanket building moratorium for the entire Southwest region of the state.
One of the biggest problems with the proposal, Kalvin says, is the “dramatic effect” it will have on the local economy.
In the first year alone, Kalvin says Fish & Wildlife estimates the negative impact will be somewhere in the $24 to $25 million range, figures he feels are grossly underestimated.
“I think that’s way low,” says Kalvin.
And “absolutely no effort,” he says, has been made to assess the trickledown effect the moratorium will have on business owners.
It’s not only will marine contractors, boatbuilders and manufacturers of boat lifts and trailers who will be affected, Kalvin says. He points out that many electricians, plumbers and carpenters rely on marine business to earn their livings.
If the plan takes effect in May, Kalvin says he anticipates illegally constructed docks will start popping and homeowners will begin tying their boats up to bare sea walls, which he says is “unsafe.”
Kalvin expects another big turnout tonight, when a second hearing is held at the Holiday Inn and Conference Center in Tampa. The Access Coalition will be represented, he says.
“[People] need to be there,” Kalvin says of the hearing. Otherwise, he says, “We’re going to lose it. The writing’s on the wall.”
MD
Manatee rules hearing draws 2,500
A turnout of more than 2,500 people at the first of seven public hearings being held in Florida on the latest federal manatee protection plan should be “an eye opener” for the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, one of the industry’s leading activists said this morning.
“The people aren’t going to roll over and take it,” Jim Kalvin, president of the Florida Water Access Coalition, said in a telephone interview.
The Access Coalition is made up of several state and national organizations, including the Marine Industries Association of Florida, the Personal Watercraft Industry Association, the National Marine Manufacturers Association, USA WaterSki, Florida Marine Contractors Association, Florida Council of Yacht Clubs, Florida Yacht Brokers Association and Standing Watch
Most of those who showed up for the meeting at Harborside Convention Hall in Fort Myers opposed the plan, Kalvin says. The meeting began at 6 p.m. and was scheduled to run until 9, but was extended until 10 p.m. to allow more people to speak.
An array of signs, t-shirts, flags and banners bore slogans such as, “Docks don’t kill manatees,” and Kalvin says a marine supply truck filled with “loads of pilings and timber” was parked outside.
The manatee protection plan, which was released in November, calls for a five-year moratorium on boat ramp, dock and marina construction throughout Southwest Florida — an area encompassing Lee, Collier, Pasco, Monroe, DeSoto, Glades and Hendry counties.
The rule is scheduled to take effect in May, following the required public comment period that began with Monday’s hearing. Six more hearings are scheduled.
Kalvin, who also founded the boating coalition Standing Watch, describes Monday’s turnout as “phenomenal.” He says he was impressed not only with the number of people who spoke out in opposition (more than 300), but with their awareness of the issues.
“[The speakers] weren’t just up there making noise because they were upset,” he said, calling them “well informed.”
Even after the extension to 10 p.m., there were more people who wanted to speak but couldn’t because time had run out, he says.
In the two and a half hours he was present, Kalvin says he only heard two people say they supported the plan, one of whom he says was “very uninformed” on the issue of manatee survival rates.
“She thinks manatees are going extinct,” Kalvin says. “She had no clue.”
The other supporter was primarily concerned about new construction causing too much boat traffic in the area, an issue Kalvin says can be remedied other ways besides issuing a blanket building moratorium for the entire Southwest region of the state.
One of the biggest problems with the proposal, Kalvin says, is the “dramatic effect” it will have on the local economy.
In the first year alone, Kalvin says Fish & Wildlife estimates the negative impact will be somewhere in the $24 to $25 million range, figures he feels are grossly underestimated.
“I think that’s way low,” says Kalvin.
And “absolutely no effort,” he says, has been made to assess the trickledown effect the moratorium will have on business owners.
It’s not only will marine contractors, boatbuilders and manufacturers of boat lifts and trailers who will be affected, Kalvin says. He points out that many electricians, plumbers and carpenters rely on marine business to earn their livings.
If the plan takes effect in May, Kalvin says he anticipates illegally constructed docks will start popping and homeowners will begin tying their boats up to bare sea walls, which he says is “unsafe.”
Kalvin expects another big turnout tonight, when a second hearing is held at the Holiday Inn and Conference Center in Tampa. The Access Coalition will be represented, he says.
“[People] need to be there,” Kalvin says of the hearing. Otherwise, he says, “We’re going to lose it. The writing’s on the wall.”
MD
12-04-2002, 01:08 PM
#28
Charter Member
Charter Member
Local liberal POS newspaper article!!
Brevard residents to speak out on manatee plan tonight
By Jim Waymer
FLORIDA TODAY
Brevard County residents will get a chance tonight to ask federal wildlife officials about new proposed regulations on building docks, marinas and other marine structures near manatee habitat.
The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service will hold a public hearing from 6-9 p.m., Dec. 4, at the Radisson Suite Hotel Oceanfront, 3101 N. Highway A1A, Indialantic.
Wildlife officials will take written and verbal comments about a proposed rule that will govern what homeowners, municipalities and marinas must do to get permits for docks, moorings, boat slips and other structures that add boats on the water near manatee habitat.
The rule is needed to comply with the 1972 Marine Mammal Protection Act, which prohibits any "incidental take" of endangered mammals without formal federal guidelines for allowing such takes.
An incidental take is a legal term that includes killing, harassing or harming an endangered species. Federal officials said they were already working on the guidelines, but also moved forward with them to comply with a legal settlement reached last year with a coalition of environmental groups.
MD
Brevard residents to speak out on manatee plan tonight
By Jim Waymer
FLORIDA TODAY
Brevard County residents will get a chance tonight to ask federal wildlife officials about new proposed regulations on building docks, marinas and other marine structures near manatee habitat.
The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service will hold a public hearing from 6-9 p.m., Dec. 4, at the Radisson Suite Hotel Oceanfront, 3101 N. Highway A1A, Indialantic.
Wildlife officials will take written and verbal comments about a proposed rule that will govern what homeowners, municipalities and marinas must do to get permits for docks, moorings, boat slips and other structures that add boats on the water near manatee habitat.
The rule is needed to comply with the 1972 Marine Mammal Protection Act, which prohibits any "incidental take" of endangered mammals without formal federal guidelines for allowing such takes.
An incidental take is a legal term that includes killing, harassing or harming an endangered species. Federal officials said they were already working on the guidelines, but also moved forward with them to comply with a legal settlement reached last year with a coalition of environmental groups.
MD
12-05-2002, 06:23 AM
#29
Charter Member
Charter Member
Well,
The boater/H2Ofront property owner turn out was TERRIBLE!!!
There was only about ~25 people total, with 1/2 of them from the $MC! Hell, the $MC even had a booth set-up outside the conference room!
The apathy amoung boaters is DISAPPOINTING!! And our wedding anniversary was last night, and I went to this meeting INSTEAD of going out to dinner with my beautiful wife!!
All I hear from Brevard Co. boaters is how they hate the Manatee zones, YET, when the opportunity presents itself to voice their displeasure about these ineffective rules is presented to them, THEY DON'T SHOW!!!
And of course the PAID EMPLOYEES of the $MC were the first 8 people to speak to the USFWS commission, asking for EVEN MORE regulations than what the USFWS is contemplating NOW!! I got up and spoke my mind and pointed out MANY flaws in their data and approach!! But if the USFWS uses the # of people who showed up to contest these new regulations as a varible in their rule making, THEN we are toast!
A couple of items that the USFWS mentioned were,
"More Regulations for boat racing events"
"Volusia County's Tomoka and Halifax Rivers will receive more regulation"
I guess I can find comfort in the fact that I go to these meetings and try to make a difference and the FACT that we have a dock/lift that's in great shape, ( I saw the writing on the wall last year and had our dock updated) and I don't have to worry about having access to the H2O! We're grandfathered in!
Sorry, just venting!
MD
The boater/H2Ofront property owner turn out was TERRIBLE!!!
There was only about ~25 people total, with 1/2 of them from the $MC! Hell, the $MC even had a booth set-up outside the conference room!
The apathy amoung boaters is DISAPPOINTING!! And our wedding anniversary was last night, and I went to this meeting INSTEAD of going out to dinner with my beautiful wife!!
All I hear from Brevard Co. boaters is how they hate the Manatee zones, YET, when the opportunity presents itself to voice their displeasure about these ineffective rules is presented to them, THEY DON'T SHOW!!!
And of course the PAID EMPLOYEES of the $MC were the first 8 people to speak to the USFWS commission, asking for EVEN MORE regulations than what the USFWS is contemplating NOW!! I got up and spoke my mind and pointed out MANY flaws in their data and approach!! But if the USFWS uses the # of people who showed up to contest these new regulations as a varible in their rule making, THEN we are toast!
A couple of items that the USFWS mentioned were,
"More Regulations for boat racing events"
"Volusia County's Tomoka and Halifax Rivers will receive more regulation"
I guess I can find comfort in the fact that I go to these meetings and try to make a difference and the FACT that we have a dock/lift that's in great shape, ( I saw the writing on the wall last year and had our dock updated) and I don't have to worry about having access to the H2O! We're grandfathered in!
Sorry, just venting!
MD
Last edited by Dean Ferry; 12-05-2002 at 12:27 PM.
12-05-2002, 08:52 AM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Dean,
Feel for you and we had much the same apathy in Lee Co. until they stepped on people other than boaters. This morn. paper uncovers one problem. Lee co. has had 13 years to come up with a Manatee protection plan and didn't. They promised to have one by 1996 and failed, it was then promised for 1998 and again missed. Thier excuse was that the GOV. is a "moving target" so they can't give them what they want if they don't know what it is. Correct....but I have dealt with the Feds. in writting Operations Manuals for the EPA and Coast Guard. It can be done. Lee Co politics smack of the "Good Ole boy" and until they step up we hurt ourselves by not doting all the i's
Feel for you and we had much the same apathy in Lee Co. until they stepped on people other than boaters. This morn. paper uncovers one problem. Lee co. has had 13 years to come up with a Manatee protection plan and didn't. They promised to have one by 1996 and failed, it was then promised for 1998 and again missed. Thier excuse was that the GOV. is a "moving target" so they can't give them what they want if they don't know what it is. Correct....but I have dealt with the Feds. in writting Operations Manuals for the EPA and Coast Guard. It can be done. Lee Co politics smack of the "Good Ole boy" and until they step up we hurt ourselves by not doting all the i's
