Marine Lubrication
01-05-2009, 10:48 PM
#1471
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Is the significant issue with shear resistance of the basestock that of an associated parallel resistance of viscosity breakdown or is it somethiong else?
Additive wise Motul uses Mg mostly and Amsoil Ca..which is fine.
The Motul is a double ester base and they sstill say V-Twin in a Grp iv/v. The high the basestock the more resistance to shear.
The M-1 SilverCap is a great value as it is right up there and priced nicely.
The Motul is a double ester base and they sstill say V-Twin in a Grp iv/v. The high the basestock the more resistance to shear.
The M-1 SilverCap is a great value as it is right up there and priced nicely.
01-06-2009, 11:56 AM
#1472
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Hydrocruiser,
I combined your data with mine.
The Silver Cap is only a few % points less Zn and P than the first line oils listed. I guess the big difference is its base stock is not 100% syn so viscosity stabilitry and byproducts of petrolium base oil breakdown with use is the shortfall?
Thoughts?
I combined your data with mine.
The Silver Cap is only a few % points less Zn and P than the first line oils listed. I guess the big difference is its base stock is not 100% syn so viscosity stabilitry and byproducts of petrolium base oil breakdown with use is the shortfall?
Thoughts?
Ken
01-06-2009, 12:01 PM
#1473
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Thanks.
I am adding an oil temperature thermostat (195F) and gage so that will not be a problem. I just was not sure if the initial flow through the bearing clearances during cold starts/idle would be abequate so as to not be a problem before oil is warmed. I have always idled until the engine coolant temperature is stabilized warm.
I am adding an oil temperature thermostat (195F) and gage so that will not be a problem. I just was not sure if the initial flow through the bearing clearances during cold starts/idle would be abequate so as to not be a problem before oil is warmed. I have always idled until the engine coolant temperature is stabilized warm.
..and a 20w50 is much thinner than a SAE 30 and a whole lot thinner than a SAE 40 at 50F.
If you are using a straight weight in these "cooler" temps a 20w50 would perform just fine. Just make sure it warm before you push the sticks down.
Ken
01-06-2009, 07:34 PM
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01-07-2009, 10:21 AM
#1475
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Are you saying that Motul is saying that V-Twin in a Grp iv/v per "and they sstill say V-Twin in a Grp iv/v" or who? My understanding from your previous comments is that the V-Twin in a Grp iv. Are you saying that V-Twin has some Grp v?
Just curious.
Just curious.
Additive wise Motul uses Mg mostly and Amsoil Ca..which is fine.
The Motul is a double ester base and they sstill say V-Twin in a Grp iv/v. The high the basestock the more resistance to shear.
The M-1 SilverCap is a great value as it is right up there and priced nicely.
The Motul is a double ester base and they sstill say V-Twin in a Grp iv/v. The high the basestock the more resistance to shear.
The M-1 SilverCap is a great value as it is right up there and priced nicely.
01-09-2009, 10:15 PM
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Max Oil Temperature
Probably more suitable as a seperate post but all the oil guys are here so just once. What is the max oil temperature that the high end (PAO) oils can repeatedly tolereate during extended WOT runs?
01-10-2009, 06:18 AM
#1479
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Bill, it is going to be hot, real hot. Over 375 F I would guess, but I am probably on the low side.
Heat oxidizes oil quickly. If my memory serves me correctly, for every 10 degrees over 300 the oil's life is halved, or something like that.
In a particular application (dwarf cars come to mind) I have seen tattletale oil temp gauges get buried at over 345 with a synthetic/petroleum blend oil. They change the oil after like 50 laps of racing so the oxidation issue isn't really an issue.
I have personally seen a engine quit running because the oil became so hot it melted the epoxy in the stator. The stator was oil cooled. Engine stopped because it lost it's spark, not because of hot oil. It was also a synthetic/petroleum blend oil. I have also seen an oil dipstick (plastic) that had melted away because the owner wanted to charge the battery by letting the engine run at a very fast idle with no means of cooling the engine. The engine was air cooled.
In both cases the oil was still fine, ok one had bits o plastic in it but the oils still provided lubrication for the engine. They did not oxidize and become a black tar like mess.
I guess what I am saying is IF you happen to run at higher than normal temps, change the oil more often, and what that interval is, I could only guess.
Of course the best scenario is not to let your oil temps get that high.
Just keep your oil temp above 180-200.
Ken
Heat oxidizes oil quickly. If my memory serves me correctly, for every 10 degrees over 300 the oil's life is halved, or something like that.
In a particular application (dwarf cars come to mind) I have seen tattletale oil temp gauges get buried at over 345 with a synthetic/petroleum blend oil. They change the oil after like 50 laps of racing so the oxidation issue isn't really an issue.
I have personally seen a engine quit running because the oil became so hot it melted the epoxy in the stator. The stator was oil cooled. Engine stopped because it lost it's spark, not because of hot oil. It was also a synthetic/petroleum blend oil. I have also seen an oil dipstick (plastic) that had melted away because the owner wanted to charge the battery by letting the engine run at a very fast idle with no means of cooling the engine. The engine was air cooled.
In both cases the oil was still fine, ok one had bits o plastic in it but the oils still provided lubrication for the engine. They did not oxidize and become a black tar like mess.
I guess what I am saying is IF you happen to run at higher than normal temps, change the oil more often, and what that interval is, I could only guess.
Of course the best scenario is not to let your oil temps get that high.
Just keep your oil temp above 180-200.
Ken
01-10-2009, 10:22 AM
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Well that is very good news. I have just installed a "700hp" oil cooler and electric oil temp gage. The engine is in the 600HP range. During a very extended WOT run the gage read 290F and still climbing but very slowly by then. A later repeat but with conditions limiting the WOT run duration to less did reach the 290F mark briefly. A quick engine shut down check of the crankcase temp with a infared temp gun showed 245F. Any idea where this WOT oil temp fits in the marine engine population?
What in the oil's performance is lost as a result of the oxidation of which you speak?
Bill
What in the oil's performance is lost as a result of the oxidation of which you speak?
Bill
Bill, it is going to be hot, real hot. Over 375 F I would guess, but I am probably on the low side.
Heat oxidizes oil quickly. If my memory serves me correctly, for every 10 degrees over 300 the oil's life is halved, or something like that.
In a particular application (dwarf cars come to mind) I have seen tattletale oil temp gauges get buried at over 345 with a synthetic/petroleum blend oil. They change the oil after like 50 laps of racing so the oxidation issue isn't really an issue.
I have personally seen a engine quit running because the oil became so hot it melted the epoxy in the stator. The stator was oil cooled. Engine stopped because it lost it's spark, not because of hot oil. It was also a synthetic/petroleum blend oil. I have also seen an oil dipstick (plastic) that had melted away because the owner wanted to charge the battery by letting the engine run at a very fast idle with no means of cooling the engine. The engine was air cooled.
In both cases the oil was still fine, ok one had bits o plastic in it but the oils still provided lubrication for the engine. They did not oxidize and become a black tar like mess.
I guess what I am saying is IF you happen to run at higher than normal temps, change the oil more often, and what that interval is, I could only guess.
Of course the best scenario is not to let your oil temps get that high.
Just keep your oil temp above 180-200.
Ken
Heat oxidizes oil quickly. If my memory serves me correctly, for every 10 degrees over 300 the oil's life is halved, or something like that.
In a particular application (dwarf cars come to mind) I have seen tattletale oil temp gauges get buried at over 345 with a synthetic/petroleum blend oil. They change the oil after like 50 laps of racing so the oxidation issue isn't really an issue.
I have personally seen a engine quit running because the oil became so hot it melted the epoxy in the stator. The stator was oil cooled. Engine stopped because it lost it's spark, not because of hot oil. It was also a synthetic/petroleum blend oil. I have also seen an oil dipstick (plastic) that had melted away because the owner wanted to charge the battery by letting the engine run at a very fast idle with no means of cooling the engine. The engine was air cooled.
In both cases the oil was still fine, ok one had bits o plastic in it but the oils still provided lubrication for the engine. They did not oxidize and become a black tar like mess.
I guess what I am saying is IF you happen to run at higher than normal temps, change the oil more often, and what that interval is, I could only guess.
Of course the best scenario is not to let your oil temps get that high.
Just keep your oil temp above 180-200.
Ken
