Marine Lubrication
10-25-2005, 07:26 PM
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
The only bad thing about Mobil-1 V-twin is the wierd feeling you get using a "motorcycle oil labled product" but once you know what is in the bottle that goes away fast. I would use it in the sense you described easilly for 50 hours and then I would check and have an analysis and TBN done to be sure before going the additional 50 hours.
Hydrocruiser,
I am a rookie here, what is a TBN and where or by whoom can I get this done and what do I look for to know if things are good or not?
10-25-2005, 09:09 PM
#342
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Rage
Hydrocruiser,
I am a rookie here, what is a TBN and where or by whoom can I get this done and what do I look for to know if things are good or not?
I am a rookie here, what is a TBN and where or by whoom can I get this done and what do I look for to know if things are good or not?
Blackstone is one I have used but there are others as well. The analysis will show if the oil is relatively free of excessive contaminants like metal or water etc and then the TBN will allow them to tell you if the oil's additives will allow continued use. It is a half way point check. The test results come back in a week and they will send you a free collection and mailer.
You really only need to do this as you are extending all the way to 100 hours...most here go about 25-50 hours. 100 may be a lot but who knows until you test.
10-26-2005, 12:09 AM
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
Blackstone is one I have used but there are others as well. The analysis will show if the oil is relatively free of excessive contaminants like metal or water etc and then the TBN will allow them to tell you if the oil's additives will allow continued use. It is a half way point check. The test results come back in a week and they will send you a free collection and mailer.
You really only need to do this as you are extending all the way to 100 hours...most here go about 25-50 hours. 100 may be a lot but who knows until you test.
Blackstone is one I have used but there are others as well. The analysis will show if the oil is relatively free of excessive contaminants like metal or water etc and then the TBN will allow them to tell you if the oil's additives will allow continued use. It is a half way point check. The test results come back in a week and they will send you a free collection and mailer.
You really only need to do this as you are extending all the way to 100 hours...most here go about 25-50 hours. 100 may be a lot but who knows until you test.
Hydrocruiser,
Thanks for the good info. I will do as you suggest.
You mentioned that the Mobil-1 V-twin oil is for motorcycles. Does the Mobil tech line recommend this oil for replacement of the Mercruiser 25W40 oil?
10-26-2005, 06:12 PM
#344
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Rage
Hydrocruiser,
Thanks for the good info. I will do as you suggest.
You mentioned that the Mobil-1 V-twin oil is for motorcycles. Does the Mobil tech line recommend this oil for replacement of the Mercruiser 25W40 oil?
Thanks for the good info. I will do as you suggest.
You mentioned that the Mobil-1 V-twin oil is for motorcycles. Does the Mobil tech line recommend this oil for replacement of the Mercruiser 25W40 oil?
M-1 V-Twin is a Super Premium Synthetic oil...it is an oil that can't be compared to conventional oils... really. It is a straight weight 50 high grade base that pumps like a 20wt when cold.. with all the good stuff as far as additives go...total high tech formulation...and Walllyland has had it for $7/qt or get a distributer to sell it to you for about the same.
Your bearings will be happy and your engine too. I would bet you could go about 75 hours on it...let me know if you try for a hundred with testing.
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 10-26-2005 at 06:14 PM.
10-26-2005, 08:58 PM
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
I don't like the word "replacement"...a close "substitute" would be Straight weight 40 oils like Kendall.
M-1 V-Twin is a Super Premium Synthetic oil...it is an oil that can't be compared to conventional oils... really. It is a straight weight 50 high grade base that pumps like a 20wt when cold.. with all the good stuff as far as additives go...total high tech formulation...and Walllyland has had it for $7/qt or get a distributer to sell it to you for about the same.
Your bearings will be happy and your engine too. I would bet you could go about 75 hours on it...let me know if you try for a hundred with testing.
M-1 V-Twin is a Super Premium Synthetic oil...it is an oil that can't be compared to conventional oils... really. It is a straight weight 50 high grade base that pumps like a 20wt when cold.. with all the good stuff as far as additives go...total high tech formulation...and Walllyland has had it for $7/qt or get a distributer to sell it to you for about the same.
Your bearings will be happy and your engine too. I would bet you could go about 75 hours on it...let me know if you try for a hundred with testing.
I ordered a Blackstone test kit for the Merc 25w40 oil in my engine now with about 70 hours on it from this season. This will be my baseline. I will post it for comment.
The Merc maintenance manual for my 2005 496HO says 100 hours is their recommendation for max so that was all I had to go on until now. I am not interested in doing this on the cheap, I want what is best for the motor since I plan on having it around for a long long time.
Since my boat winters on the lake setting on a hydrohoist I was very interest what you said about the tenacious oil film of the V Twin synthetic.
Is there any potential problem with 50 weight hot versus the Merc's 40 weight hot viscosity?
I called the Mobil 1 tech number and asked what they recommended for a Mercruiser 496HO. The guy was not real friendly and would only talk in terms of the automotive application of this GM engine and recommended a 0w35. When I asked about the 20W50 he said there was no such oil and 0w is always better because it flows better. That was a waist of time!
In my search for any comment by Merc on the Mobil 1 oils I ran across the following Blackstone report on Merc 25w40 with 21 hours on it from a "Mercury Racing HP525 2005 Sonic42SS" posted on a "Bob Is The Oil Guy" web site. The boat owner seemed impressed with the numbers. What do you think of their results below?
Can you post a similar Blackstone report on some used Mobil 1 V twin oil?
"Got the Blackstone report back on this oil. Very impressive!
Mercury Racing HP525 2005 Sonic 42SS
Oil Mercruiser 25w40
Oil added none
Hours on oil 21
Hours on unit 84 approx
Date 8/25/05
Aluminum 6 5 Universal average is second number
Chromium 2 2
Iron 10 63
Copper 71 19 (lingering wear-in of bronze parts)
Lead 2 7
Tin 0 9
Moly 4 17
Nickel 0 1
Manganese 0 3
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 0
Potassium 122 12 possible antifreeze issue
Boron 104 81
Silicon 26 115
Sodium 7 14
Calcium 564 519
Magnesium 1249 1195
Phosphorous 1243 1033
Zinc 1457 1280
Barium 0 0
SUS Vis@210C 70.9 70-85 Sheared to high 40, not bad
Flashpoint F 370 420
Fuel 2.5% <2%
Antifreeze ***
Water 0 0
Insolubles 0.3 <1.2
TBN 8.3 Plenty of active additive left, could've continued to run this oil according to Blackstone.
I'm pretty impressed with this oil. The additive pack is VERY strong after 21 hrs, much stronger than the Kendall I've been using and stronger than virgin M1-EP. And didn't even shear out of grade. It's the strongest dino oil I've seen, that's for sure. I guess those guys at Mercruiser know what they are doing?"
10-27-2005, 07:53 AM
#346
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Re: Marine Lubrication
That was me posting on BITOG. Merc's oil is great stuff, (most likely the best conventional I've seen), but I'd never use it (OR ANY OTHER OIL) more than 25 hours in a BB marine engine. If I were to try to go 100 hours 
I'd definitely use synthetic. And test, test, test! These engines are TOUGH on oil!
I'd definitely use synthetic. And test, test, test! These engines are TOUGH on oil!
10-27-2005, 08:05 AM
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Hydrocruiser,
I apologize up front for a breech of thread edict but a quick question on water separating fuel filters. Are there any screw on type units with larger capacity and/or a drain valve that will fit the stock 496HO as a direct replacement for the Merc screw on filter?
Hillbilly, on a different thread, suggested that you would have that info.
Thanks!
I apologize up front for a breech of thread edict but a quick question on water separating fuel filters. Are there any screw on type units with larger capacity and/or a drain valve that will fit the stock 496HO as a direct replacement for the Merc screw on filter?
Hillbilly, on a different thread, suggested that you would have that info.
Thanks!
10-27-2005, 01:19 PM
#348
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
From Blackstone:
JIM: The sodium in your oil is either coming from antifreeze or sea water, depending on how this
engine is cooled. In either case, it probably should not be there, but at least it doesn't appear to be
hurting anything. Most wear was lower than average, and the above-average copper is a result of
lingering wear-in at bronze parts. It should improve with time. The 1.0% fuel isn't a problem at this
level. The TBN read 7.2, still lots of active additive left. Check back in 20-30 hours. Hopefully sodium will drop.
509 Marine Engine NA
Oil Kendall GT1 20w50 Dino
Oil added 1 qt
Hours on oil 20
Hours on unit 200 approx
Date 7/20/2005
Aluminum 2 6 (Universal average is second number)
Chromium 1 2
Iron 17 22
Copper 53 39
Lead 6 186
Tin 1 2
Moly 67 31
Nickel 0 0
Manganese 0 4
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 0
Potassium 2 1
Boron 11 40
Silicon 7 13
Sodium 56 16
Calcium 1941 1171
Magnesium 37 686
Phosphorous 851 791
Zinc 1016 928
Barium 0 1
SUS Vis@210C 77.4 82-95
Flashpoint F 365 385
Fuel 1% <2%
Antifreeze 0 0
Water 0 0
Insolubles 0.2 <.06
I'm very pleased with these results. Motor's wearing good, oil is holding up well. Excellent additive pack.
Jim
Originally Posted by bglz42
20 hours on my baby, period! End of story, ain't going longer...
The UOA's I just looked at on BITOG (motorcycle UOA section , they kill oil about like a boat...) shows MUCH lower TBN's than 11 & 17 (those must be virgin numbers, Hydro?).
M1 15w50 usually shows 8 or so TBN on reasonable OCI's, and V-Twin showed 9.6 TBN after 22k miles. OK, but not spectacular.
My TBN started out as 7.5, and only dropped to 7.2 after getting the crap beat out of it. FOR MY PURPOSES, this oil is working great for my engine. Just look at those lead and iron numbers...
Thanks!
Jim
Motorcycles kick out tons more heat and shear so the TBNs don't crossover to marine engine numbers. We need more UAo's.
You are doing the right thing...20 hours and out...you knew you had more but why risk it? $2.00/qt it werks and you like it...
I used to use the same stuff for 5 years back in the early 80's myself before going to Redcap and later to V-twin.
If you forget everything about V-twin just remember it is very high in ZDDP almost double that of most conventionals. Worth it just for that alone. Your oil is great but V-Twin will kick your bearing temps. down enough to get an average of 10* lower oil temps. on the gauge. That is a huge reduction in main bearing temps. I have heard stories of having to go to coolers twice the size to get that kind of heat reduction across the board.
We have not heard of any other oil used on oso so far that can reduce oil temps by 10 degrees but M-1 V-Twin...by simply doing an oil change you get tons of heat relief. That's protection.
JIM: The sodium in your oil is either coming from antifreeze or sea water, depending on how this
engine is cooled. In either case, it probably should not be there, but at least it doesn't appear to be
hurting anything. Most wear was lower than average, and the above-average copper is a result of
lingering wear-in at bronze parts. It should improve with time. The 1.0% fuel isn't a problem at this
level. The TBN read 7.2, still lots of active additive left. Check back in 20-30 hours. Hopefully sodium will drop.
509 Marine Engine NA
Oil Kendall GT1 20w50 Dino
Oil added 1 qt
Hours on oil 20
Hours on unit 200 approx
Date 7/20/2005
Aluminum 2 6 (Universal average is second number)
Chromium 1 2
Iron 17 22
Copper 53 39
Lead 6 186
Tin 1 2
Moly 67 31
Nickel 0 0
Manganese 0 4
Silver 0 0
Titanium 0 0
Potassium 2 1
Boron 11 40
Silicon 7 13
Sodium 56 16
Calcium 1941 1171
Magnesium 37 686
Phosphorous 851 791
Zinc 1016 928
Barium 0 1
SUS Vis@210C 77.4 82-95
Flashpoint F 365 385
Fuel 1% <2%
Antifreeze 0 0
Water 0 0
Insolubles 0.2 <.06
I'm very pleased with these results. Motor's wearing good, oil is holding up well. Excellent additive pack.
Jim
Originally Posted by bglz42
20 hours on my baby, period! End of story, ain't going longer...
The UOA's I just looked at on BITOG (motorcycle UOA section , they kill oil about like a boat...) shows MUCH lower TBN's than 11 & 17 (those must be virgin numbers, Hydro?).
M1 15w50 usually shows 8 or so TBN on reasonable OCI's, and V-Twin showed 9.6 TBN after 22k miles. OK, but not spectacular.
My TBN started out as 7.5, and only dropped to 7.2 after getting the crap beat out of it. FOR MY PURPOSES, this oil is working great for my engine. Just look at those lead and iron numbers...
Thanks!
Jim
Motorcycles kick out tons more heat and shear so the TBNs don't crossover to marine engine numbers. We need more UAo's.
You are doing the right thing...20 hours and out...you knew you had more but why risk it? $2.00/qt it werks and you like it...
I used to use the same stuff for 5 years back in the early 80's myself before going to Redcap and later to V-twin.
If you forget everything about V-twin just remember it is very high in ZDDP almost double that of most conventionals. Worth it just for that alone. Your oil is great but V-Twin will kick your bearing temps. down enough to get an average of 10* lower oil temps. on the gauge. That is a huge reduction in main bearing temps. I have heard stories of having to go to coolers twice the size to get that kind of heat reduction across the board.
We have not heard of any other oil used on oso so far that can reduce oil temps by 10 degrees but M-1 V-Twin...by simply doing an oil change you get tons of heat relief. That's protection.
10-27-2005, 06:29 PM
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Guys,
What do you think of Teague Custom Marines recommendation that you do not use synthetic oil if you have a roller valvetrain?
He says it is too slippery and the rollers do not actually roll, but slide across and can eventually cause problems.
What do you think of Teague Custom Marines recommendation that you do not use synthetic oil if you have a roller valvetrain?
He says it is too slippery and the rollers do not actually roll, but slide across and can eventually cause problems.
10-28-2005, 08:17 AM
#350
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Re: Marine Lubrication
Originally Posted by Fountaineer
Guys,
What do you think of Teague Custom Marines recommendation that you do not use synthetic oil if you have a roller valvetrain?
He says it is too slippery and the rollers do not actually roll, but slide across and can eventually cause problems.
What do you think of Teague Custom Marines recommendation that you do not use synthetic oil if you have a roller valvetrain?
He says it is too slippery and the rollers do not actually roll, but slide across and can eventually cause problems.
