Extruded Honed?
12-21-2005, 11:55 AM
#31
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Marty,
You didn't ask but the one pictured is an old style M3 (M4 housing) and we spin it up to 5800-6000 rpm with a 12 rib belt and no slippage.
Dave
You didn't ask but the one pictured is an old style M3 (M4 housing) and we spin it up to 5800-6000 rpm with a 12 rib belt and no slippage.
Dave
12-21-2005, 03:37 PM
#32
Platinum Member
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by tomcat
articfriends: Centrifugal blower engines have a characteristic curve don't they. I'm not sure why yours flattens out above 5500, maybe cam and intake, but it may have more to do with the compressor HP required at higher pulley ratios. That is an exponential curve and when you hit that wall it becomes the controlling factor. Too much power being used to spin the blower. Compressor HP is rarely measured but you can see this effect very clearly if you model the engine on Engine Analyzer Pro.
Hi Dave: No, I was talking about the intake runners; the intercooler plumbing is a whole other story. don't get me started.
Your engine and articfriend's engine are very similar except he uses the MPI intake and you use the Holley single plane EFI. A comparison of those two curves would be interesting to see if the single plane carries the torque peak at a higher RPM.
Hi Dave: No, I was talking about the intake runners; the intercooler plumbing is a whole other story. don't get me started.
Your engine and articfriend's engine are very similar except he uses the MPI intake and you use the Holley single plane EFI. A comparison of those two curves would be interesting to see if the single plane carries the torque peak at a higher RPM.
12-21-2005, 03:49 PM
#33
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by stevesxm
well... the steps they took sound completely well reasoned to me. a bit more compression , a bit more cam and some manfifold work that they knew from somewhere would work with that combination. sounds exactly correct... my point is/was that i don't think it was an accident that the left those 200 thou sitting above the floor...my " argument " to support my guess would be " look they are sitting there with their millng machine and just milled off the first 70 % , why would they stop there if making it ALL go away was better ? " i think they are illustrating exactly what i am trying to say. whats right is right and everything else is wrong to some degree. someone in that group, through a lot of time and effort figured out that with that combo, THOSE bumps were better than NO bumps. illustrates that just because something LOOKS wrong or doesn't SEEM to make sense doesn't mean that thats the case.
thats why god gives you dyno's tig welders and di grinders.
i would like to see the article.... can you e mail it to me ? [email protected] ?
thats why god gives you dyno's tig welders and di grinders.
i would like to see the article.... can you e mail it to me ? [email protected] ?
12-21-2005, 03:58 PM
#34
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by stevesxm
well... the steps they took sound completely well reasoned to me. a bit more compression , a bit more cam and some manfifold work that they knew from somewhere would work with that combination. sounds exactly correct... my point is/was that i don't think it was an accident that the left those 200 thou sitting above the floor...my " argument " to support my guess would be " look they are sitting there with their millng machine and just milled off the first 70 % , why would they stop there if making it ALL go away was better ? " i think they are illustrating exactly what i am trying to say. whats right is right and everything else is wrong to some degree. someone in that group, through a lot of time and effort figured out that with that combo, THOSE bumps were better than NO bumps. illustrates that just because something LOOKS wrong or doesn't SEEM to make sense doesn't mean that thats the case.
thats why god gives you dyno's tig welders and di grinders.
i would like to see the article.... can you e mail it to me ? [email protected] ?
thats why god gives you dyno's tig welders and di grinders.
i would like to see the article.... can you e mail it to me ? [email protected] ?
12-21-2005, 04:08 PM
#35
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by cobra marty
TC and Artic, Nice plots. What does your boost curve look like? Above 5000 rpm it gets more difficult to control belt slippage. What size blowers are these and would going up a size in blower help that above 5000 rpm?
12-21-2005, 04:15 PM
#36
Registered
Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by articfriends
Sorry,no boost curve. Tyler has a nice modern dts dyno but you have to watch your boost on a little gauge mounted in his dyno room so no graph or anything. I run a 12 rib drive and keep it pretty tight,m-3sc compressor. Tried some pulls with race gas,colder plugs and a smaller pulley but results were almost identical,I think I changed too much at once and i was nervous to try more boost with the hot plugs and 92 octane so either I had belt slippage or the colder plugs and race gas made less power that cancelled out the extra power the extra boost should have made. Plus he removes the wideband 02 sensors when your running race gas so I didn't want to chance making many pulls in that form,Smitty
What cam are you running. Just curious. I think we're set up pretty similar.
Thanks,
Dave
12-21-2005, 04:19 PM
#37
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Re: Extruded Honed?
You guys are talking a different laguage to me now. I trust AZSM and they advised me on the intake manifold. Here's a pic of their work.
12-21-2005, 04:34 PM
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by tomcat
As far as the intake only being good to a certain HP level, I don't buy it if you can increase boost. Dying after a certain RPM level I believe.
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I'm just asking because it would make sense to me that in a blower application with a manifold designed for 420 hp you would think the blower could be capable of making more hp than the manifold is capable of no matter how much you increased the pressure. I'm just telling you what AZSM and another builder advised me. They both said that the stock manifold would be the most restrictive part of the entire engine after I changed the heads. The heads, the headers, the the blower are all capable of more hp than that stock manifold can handle. Thus back to my earlier post regarding putting a 500cmf carb on a 800 hp motor. It cannot create the hp with that carb even if it's under procharger carburetor assembly and you were forcing air through it.
12-21-2005, 04:34 PM
#39
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by BADKACHINA
You guys are talking a different laguage to me now. I trust AZSM and they advised me on the intake manifold. Here's a pic of their work.
12-21-2005, 04:38 PM
#40
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by articfriends
Heres my "home" version of what you had done. What does AZSM claim the work gives a 502 over a stock manifold,Smitty
They claimed they gained 30 hp on the dyno on a stock motor with the change. Could be b/s? I wasnt' there, but they have a pretty good reputation and after the work they've done for me, I trust them.
