T-496HO's Fuel/Electrical Issue????
08-16-2006, 07:14 PM
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Re: T-496HO's Fuel/Electrical Issue????
Okay today's troubleshooting results with a fuel pressure gauge.
The port engine we checked with the fuel pressure gauge (concentrating on one motor thinking both had same issue) and it read low with the switch turned on, like sub 10 psi thru several attempts (switch on/off several times).
Pulled the line off the boost pump and the screen was totally clean. Blew back thru the line from the boost pump and it was without any resistance. Did the same thing from the fuel tank on top into the tank and no resistance. Put it back together with new fuel in the separator (from mower can) and it strangely fired up nice and revved it a few times without a problem. Then about 30 seconds to 1 minute later it started losing fuel pressure on the gauge and choked back out again.....????
Fast forward....Poured the fuel out of the stbd separator later on ( we spent time focusing on the port motor trying to figure out what we thought as a duplicate problem) and it seemed to be sort of orange in color vice golden looking as it did in the port separator when poured into a glass bowl. Filled the separator back up with fresh "golden" fuel from my mower gas can (as we did the other side earlier) and it fired right up with no problem even after revving high rpm for awhile to ensure we used up the fresh gas in the separator, and again strangely enough it seemed to operate fine opposite from yesterday and it did not duplicate the problem????? WTF...!!!
We're now thinking possibly the booster pump is not functioning properly or at least intermittantly on the port motor possibly from some water etc. in the fuel. Sooooo, I'm going to get a new boost pump just for the port motor and see if that solves the problem. I still don't like the color of the fuel poured from both separators into the bowl, and will need to burn off that gas and replace with fresh gas from a different location to be sure. Doesn't mean the stbd engine won't have a recurrance. It's a bit of a guess because there's a chance it could be the high pressure pump on the port side of the motor.
To top it off, I need a rebuilt alternator for the stbd side which is not charging. All this on a set of motors according to the scanner, only has 197 hours on them (meters show 205)???
The port engine we checked with the fuel pressure gauge (concentrating on one motor thinking both had same issue) and it read low with the switch turned on, like sub 10 psi thru several attempts (switch on/off several times).
Pulled the line off the boost pump and the screen was totally clean. Blew back thru the line from the boost pump and it was without any resistance. Did the same thing from the fuel tank on top into the tank and no resistance. Put it back together with new fuel in the separator (from mower can) and it strangely fired up nice and revved it a few times without a problem. Then about 30 seconds to 1 minute later it started losing fuel pressure on the gauge and choked back out again.....????
Fast forward....Poured the fuel out of the stbd separator later on ( we spent time focusing on the port motor trying to figure out what we thought as a duplicate problem) and it seemed to be sort of orange in color vice golden looking as it did in the port separator when poured into a glass bowl. Filled the separator back up with fresh "golden" fuel from my mower gas can (as we did the other side earlier) and it fired right up with no problem even after revving high rpm for awhile to ensure we used up the fresh gas in the separator, and again strangely enough it seemed to operate fine opposite from yesterday and it did not duplicate the problem????? WTF...!!!
We're now thinking possibly the booster pump is not functioning properly or at least intermittantly on the port motor possibly from some water etc. in the fuel. Sooooo, I'm going to get a new boost pump just for the port motor and see if that solves the problem. I still don't like the color of the fuel poured from both separators into the bowl, and will need to burn off that gas and replace with fresh gas from a different location to be sure. Doesn't mean the stbd engine won't have a recurrance. It's a bit of a guess because there's a chance it could be the high pressure pump on the port side of the motor.
To top it off, I need a rebuilt alternator for the stbd side which is not charging. All this on a set of motors according to the scanner, only has 197 hours on them (meters show 205)???
Last edited by Reckless32; 08-22-2006 at 12:23 PM.
08-18-2006, 11:10 AM
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Re: T-496HO's Fuel/Electrical Issue????
Spoke with the local marine parts department and I got into an interesting discussion about my problem. They told me they have had many problems recently with fuel etc. Seems if I had some old gas left over from the pre-Ethanol requirement (May 1st in Virginia) which I did and didn't fire up my boat until a poker run in mid May meaning I had some pre-Ethanol gas that had sat from late October until May (roughly 7 months). I then topped off my boat with what is now Ethanol based fuel for the poker run. 40 hours later my problem arises.
Anyway, they said the old fuel probably did have some water one, and secondly the Ethanol breaks down the varnish on the inside of an aluminum tank mixing it with the fuel, plus the ethanol dissolves any sludge etc. which also gets into the fuel. Ethanol has a very low tolerance for water which will cause the Ethanol to separate form the fuel which is what gives it it's octane rating. Probably the reason for my fuel having a reddish/rusty/hazy color to it that I had poured out "new" separators during this process.
The local parts department had just gotten in this new additive that supposedly deals with this type of problem using special enzymes. It's called "Star-Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment" made by StarBrite $9.40 per 8oz. bottle, and $13.60 for a 16oz.. So I dumped in the 8oz bottle into the tank (approx 60-70 gallons) which is the ratio it calls for for the first treatment (1oz per 8 gallons) and will change the separators out again. I'll attempt to see if it will run, if so then I'll run the gas out while changing the separators several times again. If not, then definitely the boost pump. Follow up treatements call for 1oz for every 16 gallons. I will add this treatment to future tanks of Ethanol based fuel once my problem is solved to prevent it from happening again. It's also supposed to give it additional shelf-life for sitting over the winter. BTW they said DO NOT add Dry-Gas or anything like that because that's like adding extra Ethanol and will separate like the rest. Of course again, the hope is I don't have a bad boost pump ($205 and aggravating to replace).
What sucks about these 496's is the fuel comes from the tank thru a 60 micron in-line automotive type filter which goes straight to the boost pump THEN it hits the separator????? Should be in my mind separator prior to the boost pump I would think?
We'll check it out and see what happens....
http://www.starbrite.com/sproductdetail.cfm?ID=1537
http://www.starbrite.com/whatsnew/STAR%20BRITE%20ethanol%20page%20(2)7-24-06.pdf
Anyway, they said the old fuel probably did have some water one, and secondly the Ethanol breaks down the varnish on the inside of an aluminum tank mixing it with the fuel, plus the ethanol dissolves any sludge etc. which also gets into the fuel. Ethanol has a very low tolerance for water which will cause the Ethanol to separate form the fuel which is what gives it it's octane rating. Probably the reason for my fuel having a reddish/rusty/hazy color to it that I had poured out "new" separators during this process.
The local parts department had just gotten in this new additive that supposedly deals with this type of problem using special enzymes. It's called "Star-Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment" made by StarBrite $9.40 per 8oz. bottle, and $13.60 for a 16oz.. So I dumped in the 8oz bottle into the tank (approx 60-70 gallons) which is the ratio it calls for for the first treatment (1oz per 8 gallons) and will change the separators out again. I'll attempt to see if it will run, if so then I'll run the gas out while changing the separators several times again. If not, then definitely the boost pump. Follow up treatements call for 1oz for every 16 gallons. I will add this treatment to future tanks of Ethanol based fuel once my problem is solved to prevent it from happening again. It's also supposed to give it additional shelf-life for sitting over the winter. BTW they said DO NOT add Dry-Gas or anything like that because that's like adding extra Ethanol and will separate like the rest. Of course again, the hope is I don't have a bad boost pump ($205 and aggravating to replace).
What sucks about these 496's is the fuel comes from the tank thru a 60 micron in-line automotive type filter which goes straight to the boost pump THEN it hits the separator????? Should be in my mind separator prior to the boost pump I would think?
We'll check it out and see what happens....
http://www.starbrite.com/sproductdetail.cfm?ID=1537
http://www.starbrite.com/whatsnew/STAR%20BRITE%20ethanol%20page%20(2)7-24-06.pdf
Last edited by Reckless32; 08-22-2006 at 12:27 PM.
08-18-2006, 03:20 PM
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Re: T-496HO's Fuel/Electrical Issue????
well sounds like you need a nice run to chippokes and run that fuel out. I will be out on sat if you need any help give me a call.
STAN
STAN
08-20-2006, 08:05 AM
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Re: T-496HO's Fuel/Electrical Issue????
Haven't quite got it to he point of confidence for a Chippokes run, but that would've been my choice for a destnation. Day was perfect for it. Was gonna ride with Bill over to the tiki-bar yesterday, but just decided to stay home and do other things. Today I'm going to put fresh separators/fuel in and fire it up in the driveway and see if it will set and run some more. Otherwise I'm ordering the boost pump next week. Probably will do Chippokes on Labor Day weekend after giving the knee a couple more weeks to strengthen up some more assuming it's up and running. If not, I may just winterize it and say pizz on it for this year.
Last edited by Reckless32; 08-22-2006 at 12:29 PM.
08-21-2006, 09:44 AM
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Re: T-496HO's Fuel/Electrical Issue????
Thanks Stan.....Stbd motor fired and ran fine. Port though would fire up but idle for bit, then start to sputter and choke out. Pulled the new separator and poured out fuel and replaced with new a couple of times, but no joy. Even put another new one on but still no better. So now it definitely looks like Dave L. was right, the boost pump is either fried or intermittant probably from passing the bad gas thru it.
When we did the fuel pressure test on the injector manifold it would pressurize then slowly bleed down. Dave L. thinks it's because the boost pump is not working, the fuel pressure does not stay primed for the high pressure side. The high side you can hear pressurize when you turn the key on and hear when the motor is running. So right now I have a bad alternator on the stbd motor (not a real show stopper) and "maybe" a bad boost pump on the port motor. Hopefully when I replace the pump it fixes the problem so I'm not chasing ghosts and wasting time/effort/money. I hope to be running by Labor Day weekend.
When we did the fuel pressure test on the injector manifold it would pressurize then slowly bleed down. Dave L. thinks it's because the boost pump is not working, the fuel pressure does not stay primed for the high pressure side. The high side you can hear pressurize when you turn the key on and hear when the motor is running. So right now I have a bad alternator on the stbd motor (not a real show stopper) and "maybe" a bad boost pump on the port motor. Hopefully when I replace the pump it fixes the problem so I'm not chasing ghosts and wasting time/effort/money. I hope to be running by Labor Day weekend.
Last edited by Reckless32; 08-22-2006 at 12:33 PM.
