Stingray69

I only subscribe to having an open mind, because I know I don't know everything.

It's obviously impossible for some.

monstaaa

dude j.k meant just kidding,,,,,, but for the record steamhoses from front to back? the water exits the engine thru the water neck into the exhaust, the rear of the intake is purged v.i.a water dumps plumbed overboard in correct diameter as not to decrease pressure too much as stated in an earlier post.
aslo i do not post what i have heard or read or seen in another thread. my advice comes from numerous years of being in this buisness, professionally. their are plenty of o.s.o members who are clients.satisfied clients. for the methods i open my mouth about are in fact proven first hand at high speeds , many times over.
i would not attempt to advise someone to correct their situation and opinionate myself for self gratification, all on an article i read.
i do not know everything, howver their are alot of pro's who perposely keep the general public ignorant for personal financial gain. as are their members of this site who anonamouly hide behind their screen names, and spew arguementative or inflamatory comments, and pretend to have been there and done that.

i am neither................. my comments stand..........
my knowledge is only surpassed by my passion for our industry.


take a joke,,and relax

cuda

I still don't think you can run water through an engine so fast it will not carry heat off with it. Think of the water as one large heat sink. Have you ever soldered something, and didn't want another part to get too hot while soldering, put a piece of heavy metal against the piece you are soldering to act as a heat sink, to carry away the excess heat you don't want on another part of the same piece.

Take a pot full of water, put it on a stove, with a hose runnign in it constantly. The water will not boil, but the stove is putting out the same amount of heat, that heat is going somewhere, my best guess it's going out with the water overflowing the pot, no matter how fast it's running in the pot. Can you run the hose too fast causing the water to boil? I don't think so.

I think a t stat is all well and good on a closed system, but if your using raw water, and it has salt in it, the salt starts crystalizing rapidly somewhere just over 140 degrees. My dad was chief of the engine rooms in naval ships, and he said ANYTHING they had to use raw water cooling they had to keep at 140 degrees. I'm sure there is a slight safety factor at 140.

As Reed pointed out, the reason they run pressure caps on autos is because the higher the pressure, the hotter the boiling point, but I have yet to see a raw water cooled auto.

Thunderstruck

cuda, I agree. See post 36. In your example the heat is transferring from the flame or electric eye, to the pot, to the water no matter how fast the hose is running into the pot. In the "fast water" posts, you could reach a point at which the water flowed so fast that your pot would melt which simply will not happen. 1. The greater the flow the more turbulence which increases the convective heat transfer which will actually decrease the temperature of the pot (i.e. block and heads). 2. The more water flow the closer the inlet water temp stays to the outlet water temp, even with the same amount of heat input because the heat is distributed into a greater mass of water. #2 is why people see lower temps on their temp gages. NOT because the water is picking up less heat.

Even though there are posts that ridicule heat transfer theory in this thread, there are people on this thread that are trying to rationalize what is happening when you remove the thermostat. I think a little theory and stove top examples are OK.

monstaaa

pretty much, and most HIGH PERF applications see about 140 or so water temps while out and about crushin the throttles.

monstaaa

to an extent you are correct,, the extent stops when you theorize and your customer is looking at a richie zul 40k engine melted in his bilge.
this is not rocket science. and is not a stove top. nor a difference of oppinion. it is fact.
there is a huge difference between a stock engine / or closed cooling system engine, and a big cube high hp engine designed t orun at 6000 rpm.
this is a" Performance" Boat Enthusiast site.

Thunderstruck

Your $40K is chump change. My customers rely on me to prevent melting $500,000,000 ethylene plants and refineries and I use heat transfer theory along with 24 years engineering experience to do so. You make good points but understanding the basics of the water flow and heat flow is critical to making a setup work if you do not have the experience. What would be sad is for someone to take some of the BS off of this board and tear up their motor because the experienced guys forgot to mention the one point that made the setup work so you could run all day at 6000 rpm.

monstaaa

your plants and refineries are adifferent animal. i wouldny go into a forum on those subjects and lead people onto something i was not absolutely sure of.

to you and the other poster, my comments were not and are not meant to be offensive. if they were then both of you have my appologee's. i understand heat tranfer theory. very well actually.

point is, i am not getting in debth as to educating the public, rather trying to keep those searching for correct answers on a specific topic a shorter route to the answer for said topic.
these engines have run exactly that ground.

Stingray69

Cuda, right about the 140 thermostat deal; it is because of mineralization/crystallization.

The deal with using NO thermostat is you will run too cold. It acts to restrict the QUANTITY of water, so that the block CAN warm to 140-ish. Maybe not too cold in FLA, or FLA in the summer, I couldn't say, I live quite north; but IF you run with no T-stat and NO circ pump, the pressure in the block WILL be more than the gaskets can take. Instant milkshake following a WOT run, or dyno pull. Watched two buds do this for themselves; I don't need to go there, myself, to see I don't want to. This is where the Merc pressure relief valve dumping overboard, comes in. Merc found this when they used cross-overs on the SC's.

If going away from a stock type water circuit, I STRONGLY SUGGEST using a block mounted water PRESSURE guage.

Monstaaa, as I said, there is no ONE way to do it. If you have success in plumbing YOUR water circuits, that's cool. Your dumping from the back of the intake, and the specific size of that hose reduces the internal block water pressure. But, as I said, there is no ONE way to do anything; if it works for you, fine, no matter what ANYONE says. Do you KNOW what water pressure your systems carry? I have not seen dumps from the rear of the manifold, thanks for sharing.

I'm just an enthusiast, but I've seen a lot of 'steam hose' plumbed boat and race car motors. Most AM intakes have the ports, or at least the bosses are cast in for them.

And I don't have ANY subscriptions. I don't pretend anything. I just pay attention, and listen to others. I've found the smartest people aren't very belligerent.

monstaaa

stingray. all the water systems i have plumbed have been set to run no less than 12 psi and no more than 22 psi( spike psi of 25) with the exception of stock monitoring systems that require more. also a stat is a restriction in thw water system at the higher rates of speed boats are going these days.
many bord members have experiencved this problem in 1 of 2 ways ( to sum it up as an average). the repowered and picked up big speed or the installed a shortie imco lower which put there water psi thru the roof . in alot of cases more than 40 pounds. havind no stat, or a crossover will not push out intake or head gaskets. its the increase in the increase in other areas that help this to happen.
which is why i suggested using a pop off vave, prior to the raw water pump to dump excess before it even gets close to the engine. the intake dumps are to regulate.
again my knowledge comes from countless hours of r and d and alot of high speed applications.