PARADOX

Sounds great tblrklakemo

Send me the $

tblrklakemo

hey, im in the same boat......well not literaly. I would probably do the HO525 raylar motor. I have thought about it extensivly, but we are expecting a baby by next summer so ive got larger boats on the mind right now. If you want to keep your stock block do the HO600 with forged pistons and rods, paired with some CMI headers. That would be a bad azz motor.

Hot 4 Teacher

Bob, if you're sincerely interested in getting rid of your procharger, shoot me a PM.

Hot 4 Teacher

I fried #3 by running a bit too lean with just the Raylar and no boost. Regardless of which upgrade you select, I would also go with forged internals as the stock pistons are the weak link and I have pictures to prove it. I now have all forged internals, a 30 over block, a Raylar 103K and Whipple Stage I. If I come across a good deal on a procharger, it would be my next purchase as the motor can now handle it. (Whipples are nice, but I don't have the front clearance required.) I agree with the dude that suggested a blown Raylar as this should push well over 700hp. Shoot, that might even be enough to push my little sled!

Wild Card 09

Well isnīt that what you get when you buy a Mercury Racing motor. A performance package where EVERYTHING on it is dialed in and set up to work right up to WOT, and.........
you get to sell your still healthy 496 (probably to a guy whoīs just grenaded his 496 by modifying it, and wants to get back on the water with a stock motor) for good money
and when you do someday sell your hot rodded boat, you have 75% more chance of finding a buyer for it,īcos everyone knows what a HP500,525,575,600....means.
My 140 hour 496 made way for the 525, and has ended up back in a 25 Outlaw after the owner blew the original motor. He was running a Raylar 103 kit with Lightning headers, was still 6 mph slower than my boat before his motor blew.
I want to state here that the problem with a Raylar motor is only the installation, which too many owners underestimate, or try to save money on.
Bottom line - when you add up the true costs and the resale value of a modded motor (and the fact that blue horses are bigger) a Merc Racing motor makes alot of sense.

techman

Wildcard, what was the swap from a 496 to a 525 like? Was it plug and play or did a lot of fabrication/wiring take place?

Whipple Charged

And how is this the best? By controling fuel via a regulator and 80psi of fuel psi, where injectors are wide open at 4000rpm? Or are you talking about removing the entire fuel system, upgrading to 60lb fuel injectors, getting new MEFI computer, tuning software, wiring harness and recalibrating the system? Because anything over 3.5psi with a Procharger is asking for trouble unless the fuel/pcm system is modified heavily.

A PC makes plenty of power, but if you're not controling the fuel flow, spark, coil power, etc, then your're not going to make it when boost levels rise above the standard 3.5. Then, if you modify the heads, camshaft, etc., you've changed the VE of the engine (how the 555 computes fueling) and therefore your going to have area's lean and rich. Might have too much cylinder psi in one spot which requires less timing, and vice versa for power. Then you get into the knock system, which is calculated off of load, so once you change the motor, the load changes, and therefore it's not accurate anymore. Then, if your injectors are too small, and stock ones are when going past 3.5psi (upgraded ones are too small as well), then you have no detonation fuel control, as at WOT, the injectors are wide open, there's only fuel psi pushing more fuel in, no way to go richer if detonation occurs.

I'm the only person that reprograms these computers in the marine/aftermarket. I love when I see people saying the pistons won't make it, or the motor will fall apart. The pistons can take the abuse if setup properly. Detonation is what kills them, so the system needs to be conservative, and you need to stay in the parameters the mfg's state.

Dyno's don't always prove a motor's setup correctly, especially since most can't run wet exhaust. If you set your engine up on a dyno without your exahust, or the exact same as your exhaust, your going to have to do the same thing again in the boat. The boat is the real world, it can be simulated, but most are not equipped for such a thing. If the dyno uses your exhaust, your fuel pump, your fuel lines, regulator, coil, etc. then, yes, this is an excellent way to set your motor up.

If you want to setup any package right, you should install a air fuel meter in the collector of the exhaust (either side), and with a quality wide band air fuel meter, you can creep up to different rpm/load points and verify that your air fuel is correct. Since were talking about 496's, timing is not adjustable so thats the only parameter you can truly view to make sure it's right. On 500's, you have a bit more adjustment. You should also run with a proper scan tool or scan software. Mercury's new software shows the knock signal in Mhz, this should be monitored. On the 500s, "knock retard" should be monitored. This tells you if the motor is detonating.

One single "Detonation" event does not typically kill motors, it's prolonged abuse, maybe this is 5 seconds, or 20 seconds, or 5 minutes. Therefore, better parts, such as forged vs. cast, cometic gasket vs. graphite gasket, etc. all increase the length of detonation, but typically does not stop it. Therefore, if it's not right, it will still fail, it's just when.

To answer the question in regards to packages, the Raylar package makes good power and is to some degree conservative because it's not superchargerd. The Procharger system, which I don't think is available, does a good effective job at 3.5psi, but leaves you little room in future without big expense. The Whipple is certainly not as conservative as Raylar, but similar to PC, other than higher boost levels, 5-6psi, which is fine when the computer is programmed properly and the fuel system can keep up.

Thanks,
Dustin

Wild Card 09

If you swap a pre 2006 525 into a boat with a 496/502 its going to be pretty much plugīn play. Small issues with motor mounts, maybe, and the tailpipes are slightly wider apart on the 496.

However my deal was different. From March 2006 on, the 525 uses the same can-bus electronic technology all the way to the helm, like the bigger blue motors.

This means a
14 pin connector instead of the old ten pin, and a number of other differences that meant I had to fit a complete new harness into the boat. There are a few great little advantages to this, including being able to hook up most of my additional gauges and a Smartcraft SC1000 Monitor directly at the dash. I wanted the newest edition of the 525 and was prepared to accept the additional installation work as part of the deal.

Obviously, because I also fitted an extension box which raised the x, and therefore the motor by 3", I also had to fabricate new motor mounts and recut the holes in the transom for the tips.
But it was all worth it, to go from 67 mph to 81 mph.
525īs are definitely good for 560 crank hp, and you can call those horses up, for as long as you want to!

I strongly believe that the 525 is the best upgrade that you can do on a 496, and the work involved to install it is worth every dollar. 140 hours in, the motor looks like it just came out of the box, and I donīt take prisoners when I drive!

And if I want to bump up to a 600, now, it will be plugīn play.....and I can get serious money for used 525.

blue thunder

That is a very good post Dustin and helpful to me. Do you think an engine can live running cast hypereutectic piston with 3.5# boost if detonation is avoided? I know thats a big IF, but I'd like your opinion. Carb application, no detonation. Y or N?

Sorry for the hijack Paradox.

BT

Whipple Charged

Certainly can live at 3.5 if the af and timing is correct. Not that its an exact example, but in the auto market, with some of our Ford kits, they partner with us and do durability testing. The new 4.6L 3v mustang motor has the ring nearly at the top of the piston, far worse than the 496 or GM LS based engines, yet at 75% HP and torque over stock (10psi), the motor passes 50 hours @ peak HP/peak rpm, and 50 hours at peak trq. The motor constantly detonates, as it has to be set to it's worst envoirnment. No issues with pistons failing. EGT's stay near 1700deg f.

Ford Lightning's, years 99-04 all came with hyperutetic pistons, supercharged at 8psi of boost.

I honestly can't tell you how many times I've seen people install better parts, and then hurt the next thing. If the setup is right, it will be very, very reliable. This means all have to be factored, static compression ratio, engine operating temp, cylinder head design, piston design, cylinder head material, oil temp, air fuel, spark, spark plug heat range and style, etc.

What makes things tough for aftermarket companies such as ours is having the kit used in the way it's intended. If we stated 50psi of fuel psi, thats what we found was the best, possibly +2psi for safety. But then, nearly every gauge in this world varies (drives me crazy) so the installer may set psi right, but gauge might be wrong, not it's lean, or rich. This is why the af meters are so valuable. Years back, these were so expensive, I have 8 of them that were $10,000 each!! Now, you can get a quality one for $300!! To me, if your an engine builder, or a tuning shop, repair shop or work on engines, your crazy to not own one.

Dustin