Biggest HP on pump gas?
11-19-2008, 02:08 PM
#111
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I've heard of people having fuel distribution issues with the PSI's, but our PSI's have even fuel distribution. Almost dead even egt's.... We only spent about a days worth on the dyno. Alot of it has to do with having a good manifold. We run a blowershop manifold and a copper (single core, but just slightly bigger than a Lee style single core) intercooler that we built.
11-19-2008, 02:13 PM
#112
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Red beans rice & Hurricanes1.06 efficient? Where did you get that number? The PSI, at 15psi, turning at a ratio of 1.25:1 has an AE of 52% and VE of 80%. 178 screw compressors? Or 178 1471's? Aircraft specs? Really, have you measured one, when a rotor varies from .025" to .065" in clearance, thats not aircraft specs. Measure rotor to bearing plate clearance, either end from one to another. We hold .005" tolerance on our 9.8 liter, .002" on our 8.3, .001" on our 3.3 and 2.3. Rotor run out is less than 20 microns. PSI cuts rotors on Holroyd machines that were made 30+ years ago. We use a brand new machine, and a very accurate CMM machine to keep everything in close tolerances.
11-19-2008, 02:40 PM
#113
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Not to argue, but equal EGT's don't mean equal distribution. It's good to say one won't hurt before the other, but typically, the lean cylinder also doesn't have as much O2 which lowers cylinder pressure, giving you the same EGT. To get true distribution numbers, you need 8 wide band air fuels. Example, on one manifold we built, we couldn't get #8 to stop going 14:1 while all others were 12:1 air fuel. But EGT's were almost identical. Reason is simple, that cylinder did not have the cylinder pressure of the others.
C'mon dusty can't be menapause setting in 
...dont you remember when Roger layed it all out for ya with bigger words then you could even understand ... 
gotta be doin sumtin right over there with 178 on order
11-19-2008, 02:44 PM
#114
Banned
Keith,
Actually you started this while I tried to give you answers, as well as others. You've been asking the same questions for nearly 5 years now, yet you haven't bought a single item from me. If I remember correctly, you were telling me how fantastic the PSI were about 5 years ago in Miami and I told you then, as I told you now, there are many problems, but they make peak HP. I think you found that out.
And again, I don't build boats and I'm not in charge of testing boats. If you really want to get info, call Bob Teague. The boat went the same speed @ 6500 feet as it did at sea level. Pretty simple. Is it silly to bring a boat with the wrong gear ratio? Yes, of course, but it's not my call and not my nickel. If you doubt any part of that boat, talk to the people that were part of it. It's extremely insane to think the supercharger has anything what-so-ever of the boats speed in that test. Just reading the article will tell you it was prepped for TAHOE. A month or two earlier, the 36 Eliminator went 169mph with the same engines.
The PSI has multiple problems, it's not a knock, it's the truth. You should know that after you were involved with the one builder who melted a few motors trying to get them right. Ask almost any engine builder that has played with them and they'll tell you there are huge distribution problems. And as any product, it takes some serious know how to get them right. There's also multiple versions, and unless you get one particular one, you'll always make less HP then the quad, 5.0 or 8.3. There are plenty of other issues that we address, that I'm not going to give the answers to here. They make great peak HP, but, there are many issues for use in marine. So if someone wants to make a wise crack and say just buy 4 of the PSI's, it's simply ignorant to act like you can just bolt them on and go. Again, you know that.
And me making claims? Seriously Keith? Our product has been proven time and time again. If you got some real questions, call and talk to some of the engine builders that have used them and tested back to back. Bob Teague, Gary Teague, Tommy Hofstetter, Paul Pfaff, Richie Zul, Joey Griffin.....I can stand behind every claim, always have. You seem to keep misreading everything posted and are stuck on 200hp (read every post, it depends on entire package). I've never claimed some MPH, I deal in POWER, thats what I do, thats what I sale. Nobody ever said every motor makes 200hp more nad thats 20mph, so I never claimed that. I gave facts on multiple applications and the results on the dyno. Because it's there boats and they drive the boats, I can't give back-to-back test results.
As I've told you before, and you just don't seem to get it, every motor is different, as is every roots type supercharger from different mfg's. You got Blower Shop, Littlefield, Mooneyham, Kuhl, BDS, Weiand, B&M.... Each is different, and not one of them compete with a screw type supercharger of equal size, that is a fact. Not only that, many are not held to tight tolerances so they very from unit to unit. Some are better than others, some lose performance over time, etc. Then, as I said before, it depends on the package. What if your running a 1071 on a 540, dart heads, solid roller cam, but your only running 2psi of boost? Putting a screw on isn't going to make 200hp more at 2psi, since the original blower isn't doing squat (little temp increase and low parasitic losses). But same motor, is running 15psi of boost with a 1071 with no teflon, standard opening and discharge, no offset, then you put the 5.0/8.3 on and it will make 200+hp at 15psi! It's pretty simple.
Example, a PSI 1471 roots supercharger, 60deg helix takes approx. 700hp to turn @ 55psi of boost @ 8000 engine rpm. The A980 takes 400hp! Thats 300 less just with parasitic losses, before temperature, air density, distribution, etc. is added to the equation. In the end, it's nearly 600hp on a top fuel motor, but they're banned from top fuel so it doesn't matter.
Back to your boat, why don't we stick to motor info, since thats where my speciaties lie. You keep going back to your boat, but I don't build boats Keith, please understand that. Is your boat setup identical to the other race boats? Your X dimension identical? Is your CG identical? Is the boat weight identical? Width, height of the sponsons? Tab, prop, engine placement? If so, thats great, then you mirror everything they have and should in theory get identical results. Therefore, motor data will then give you the X of your equation. So again, answer this: CI, cam lift, duration, lobe centerline, how it's setup (advanced, retarded), head size (runner and combustion chamber), porting?, manifold type, is it port matched, intercooler type, carb size and flow numbers if they've been flown, carb adapter, engine rpm you wish to compare, boost currently running, total advance, octane.
If there are complaints about our warranty, then I don't know about it. Its pretty simple, 1 year from ship date unless the parts are used in a manner in which we do not support, which is rare, but possible, which we explain to the customers first hand. Then kits don't work? Are you refering to ours? We didn't get to where we are by selling sh*%.
Actually you started this while I tried to give you answers, as well as others. You've been asking the same questions for nearly 5 years now, yet you haven't bought a single item from me. If I remember correctly, you were telling me how fantastic the PSI were about 5 years ago in Miami and I told you then, as I told you now, there are many problems, but they make peak HP. I think you found that out.
And again, I don't build boats and I'm not in charge of testing boats. If you really want to get info, call Bob Teague. The boat went the same speed @ 6500 feet as it did at sea level. Pretty simple. Is it silly to bring a boat with the wrong gear ratio? Yes, of course, but it's not my call and not my nickel. If you doubt any part of that boat, talk to the people that were part of it. It's extremely insane to think the supercharger has anything what-so-ever of the boats speed in that test. Just reading the article will tell you it was prepped for TAHOE. A month or two earlier, the 36 Eliminator went 169mph with the same engines.
The PSI has multiple problems, it's not a knock, it's the truth. You should know that after you were involved with the one builder who melted a few motors trying to get them right. Ask almost any engine builder that has played with them and they'll tell you there are huge distribution problems. And as any product, it takes some serious know how to get them right. There's also multiple versions, and unless you get one particular one, you'll always make less HP then the quad, 5.0 or 8.3. There are plenty of other issues that we address, that I'm not going to give the answers to here. They make great peak HP, but, there are many issues for use in marine. So if someone wants to make a wise crack and say just buy 4 of the PSI's, it's simply ignorant to act like you can just bolt them on and go. Again, you know that.
And me making claims? Seriously Keith? Our product has been proven time and time again. If you got some real questions, call and talk to some of the engine builders that have used them and tested back to back. Bob Teague, Gary Teague, Tommy Hofstetter, Paul Pfaff, Richie Zul, Joey Griffin.....I can stand behind every claim, always have. You seem to keep misreading everything posted and are stuck on 200hp (read every post, it depends on entire package). I've never claimed some MPH, I deal in POWER, thats what I do, thats what I sale. Nobody ever said every motor makes 200hp more nad thats 20mph, so I never claimed that. I gave facts on multiple applications and the results on the dyno. Because it's there boats and they drive the boats, I can't give back-to-back test results.
As I've told you before, and you just don't seem to get it, every motor is different, as is every roots type supercharger from different mfg's. You got Blower Shop, Littlefield, Mooneyham, Kuhl, BDS, Weiand, B&M.... Each is different, and not one of them compete with a screw type supercharger of equal size, that is a fact. Not only that, many are not held to tight tolerances so they very from unit to unit. Some are better than others, some lose performance over time, etc. Then, as I said before, it depends on the package. What if your running a 1071 on a 540, dart heads, solid roller cam, but your only running 2psi of boost? Putting a screw on isn't going to make 200hp more at 2psi, since the original blower isn't doing squat (little temp increase and low parasitic losses). But same motor, is running 15psi of boost with a 1071 with no teflon, standard opening and discharge, no offset, then you put the 5.0/8.3 on and it will make 200+hp at 15psi! It's pretty simple.
Example, a PSI 1471 roots supercharger, 60deg helix takes approx. 700hp to turn @ 55psi of boost @ 8000 engine rpm. The A980 takes 400hp! Thats 300 less just with parasitic losses, before temperature, air density, distribution, etc. is added to the equation. In the end, it's nearly 600hp on a top fuel motor, but they're banned from top fuel so it doesn't matter.
Back to your boat, why don't we stick to motor info, since thats where my speciaties lie. You keep going back to your boat, but I don't build boats Keith, please understand that. Is your boat setup identical to the other race boats? Your X dimension identical? Is your CG identical? Is the boat weight identical? Width, height of the sponsons? Tab, prop, engine placement? If so, thats great, then you mirror everything they have and should in theory get identical results. Therefore, motor data will then give you the X of your equation. So again, answer this: CI, cam lift, duration, lobe centerline, how it's setup (advanced, retarded), head size (runner and combustion chamber), porting?, manifold type, is it port matched, intercooler type, carb size and flow numbers if they've been flown, carb adapter, engine rpm you wish to compare, boost currently running, total advance, octane.
If there are complaints about our warranty, then I don't know about it. Its pretty simple, 1 year from ship date unless the parts are used in a manner in which we do not support, which is rare, but possible, which we explain to the customers first hand. Then kits don't work? Are you refering to ours? We didn't get to where we are by selling sh*%.
U cheap B!@tch break out the Benjamins and spread it around . Scott sorry bout the hijack
11-19-2008, 04:24 PM
#115
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PSI has nothing to prove and Ronnie Sporl hurt engines trying to run without intercoolers.
We could go back and forth till blood runs from my fingers.
By the way it was 3 yrs ago we talked at the boat show.
I would have purchased your new 5.0s but Whipple couldn't deliver right thats why Hammer Time is running 1075 mercs.
2600 people have veiwed this post and my PM box is full with comments,that I was asked not to post.I havent purchased your product because many reasons.
Im still told that Jim Lees 46 slowed down 12 mph
It might sound like I have a hard on for you or your dads company and that couldn't be further from the truth,But I wont be a sheep and Im not stuipid.Im not stuck on 200 Hp I could give a rats A** about key board racing and what people claim they run on the GPS.
Dustin you through out the #S over the 1471 with no other specs but now when I simply ask for a comparison in any boat you bring up your not a boat builder.
If you want us as buyers to believe in your product give us some true testing on the water v bottoms and cats.No boat built that I know of will slow down with more HP.
I never said your company built Sh*t but in my business I dont knock my competition shows no class.
Im not trying to sell PSI or anyother brand but this site was not set up for a 0ne sided opinion remember the started thread was how much power could be made on 93oct.Your getting plenty free advertising I would use it wisely. Looking forward to your reply.
We could go back and forth till blood runs from my fingers.
By the way it was 3 yrs ago we talked at the boat show.
I would have purchased your new 5.0s but Whipple couldn't deliver right thats why Hammer Time is running 1075 mercs.
2600 people have veiwed this post and my PM box is full with comments,that I was asked not to post.I havent purchased your product because many reasons.
Im still told that Jim Lees 46 slowed down 12 mph
It might sound like I have a hard on for you or your dads company and that couldn't be further from the truth,But I wont be a sheep and Im not stuipid.Im not stuck on 200 Hp I could give a rats A** about key board racing and what people claim they run on the GPS.
Dustin you through out the #S over the 1471 with no other specs but now when I simply ask for a comparison in any boat you bring up your not a boat builder.
If you want us as buyers to believe in your product give us some true testing on the water v bottoms and cats.No boat built that I know of will slow down with more HP.
I never said your company built Sh*t but in my business I dont knock my competition shows no class.
Im not trying to sell PSI or anyother brand but this site was not set up for a 0ne sided opinion remember the started thread was how much power could be made on 93oct.Your getting plenty free advertising I would use it wisely. Looking forward to your reply.
Keith,
I'm not gonna keep arguing with you so lets just stick to the facts:
1. 200HP and more was gained on some motors tested by Tommy @ Chief. This is a great number but obviously, it was the right package.
2. You've asked for comparison, and I've asked for the data, can't predict or estimate anything without the proper data. Provide the data requested and you'll get an answer from me and probably others.
3. We had the 305's at the time Hammertime was ready to purchase, but it took time to get the belt system and throttle body system built. This was the rear entry compressor. You were looking for the top entry unless you went EFI, so we had the top entry even when I talked to you then. We had just tested against the PSI and quad at Pfaff's.
4. If Jim Lee's slowed down 12mph, and using your calculation, that means he lost nearly 200hp. There is no way in gods green earth that is possible vs. 1471. I was also told by the engine builder that everything was good. Call Joey Griffin, he did some back to back test with a 1471.
5. I through out some spec's on a motor Chief did, but I never claimed any MPH gains because thats impossible. Every boat is different. And the one in question is the one video where you see Pure Platinum pull away from the Heli like it's standing still! As I've said, I'm a power broker, thats what I do, I help get consumers power, its up to the boat builders or end users to get the boat to go faster.
6. 2600 people have not viewed this thread, it's been viewed 2600 times. Each time you view it, it add's to the "views" total.
7. Company is not my "dads", its a family company, family owned.
So to get this thread back on track, just give me the spec's that I've requested multiple times, and you'll get an asnwer back on what you should expect. Then you can calculate $$ vs. HP vs. MPH.
Thanks,
Dustin
11-19-2008, 04:49 PM
#116
Registered
The best supercharger ever made by whipple is the R980.
It is Funny how anyone who wants to make big power
uses PSI.
Guys Like Dave Scott, Tom Byrd, Barry Z. Mike D.
When refering to the PSI the only one is the 206b
12lb cut.
But you know that.
Roger says he loves you to by the way.
Its good to see that Dustin is still his number one fan
Didnt your boy Mikey have them r980,s on the xxx when he went to SC to meet reggie. wanna guess what sc reggie had?
It is Funny how anyone who wants to make big power
uses PSI.
Guys Like Dave Scott, Tom Byrd, Barry Z. Mike D.
When refering to the PSI the only one is the 206b
12lb cut.
But you know that.
Roger says he loves you to by the way.
Its good to see that Dustin is still his number one fan
Didnt your boy Mikey have them r980,s on the xxx when he went to SC to meet reggie. wanna guess what sc reggie had?
Last edited by KNOT-RIGHT; 11-19-2008 at 04:51 PM.
11-19-2008, 04:49 PM
#117
Registered
VIP Member
Wow!!
What started out as a "who can make the most horsepower on pump gas" thread, turned into a "what boat is faster" thread, and a "Bash on Dustin Whipple" thread. Dustin makes big, reliable, horsepower. He has the best record, and warantee in the marine buisness. He helps more people with questions, than I have ever seen any manufacturer do. Question?.... are there a few examples of people making more horsepower?? I am sure there are. Are they as reliable and easily duplicated? I haven't seen it. The reason so many OEM's use Dustin's product is because of reliability and the ability to replicate the product.
Thankyou Dustin... for all that you have added to our form of recreation.
Lets get this thread back to where it started. Who can make the most horsepower on pump gas?
There is a guy in the mid-west who is doing turbines on pump gas... aproximately 2500 hp. in moderate tune for a smallish turbine that will fit in a standard boat engine bay. I will try to get his website address for you guys that have all the money, and want to go really fast.
Chris
P.S. The proven formula for going really fast right now is: Big Skater Hull, Twin turbins, Arneson drives
What started out as a "who can make the most horsepower on pump gas" thread, turned into a "what boat is faster" thread, and a "Bash on Dustin Whipple" thread. Dustin makes big, reliable, horsepower. He has the best record, and warantee in the marine buisness. He helps more people with questions, than I have ever seen any manufacturer do. Question?.... are there a few examples of people making more horsepower?? I am sure there are. Are they as reliable and easily duplicated? I haven't seen it. The reason so many OEM's use Dustin's product is because of reliability and the ability to replicate the product.
Thankyou Dustin... for all that you have added to our form of recreation.
Lets get this thread back to where it started. Who can make the most horsepower on pump gas?
There is a guy in the mid-west who is doing turbines on pump gas... aproximately 2500 hp. in moderate tune for a smallish turbine that will fit in a standard boat engine bay. I will try to get his website address for you guys that have all the money, and want to go really fast.
Chris
P.S. The proven formula for going really fast right now is: Big Skater Hull, Twin turbins, Arneson drives
I never once knock Dustin.I have no problem with his company and there is allways good out come in a really go discussing. Hes a big boy I think he has handled him self well. My first post/ was give me some good real life #s in a running hull to compare to.
Me spending money should have nothing to do with questioning anyones product. I didnt start by knocking Dustin he made a comment about how much HP his SC made over a 1471 and covered it with 2 lines. I stated give me one comparision were someone changed out 1471 and went to his SC and how much speed did he gain.Bill Pyburn gave his input which I did learn something about 5.0s & 8.3s, you can spend the 8.3S much slower and end up with the same boost.Bill seems happy now not so much at Dessert storm. Dyno sheets have there place and we can claim whatever speed on line we come up with.
Richie Prince with a 36 Eliminator beat Reggie at Jacksonville Poker Run with a boat that on paper ran 25 MPH slower
Thanks Richie for starting the hold cat killer I beat Al Copeland in his 40 Skater with twin Rolls Royce turbines that read Worlds Fastest Pleasure Boat168+. I miss Al but I don t think that hull ever seen 168 if so my GPS was off 14MPH.
I do have a big Skater and no you dont need turbines and Arnesons to go fast. See Byrd 46' 2000 skater with #6 drysumps and full skegs no center rudder. Its powered by some monster JC performance power and knocking on the 200 mark.
Gasoline turbines
I would bet not a insurance company around would cover that set up.I dont care how many OEM users buy wipple products unless there covering my tab i want to know what kind of speed I will gain over my current set up that has never failed for 18- 20K. And when has any thread ever stayed on topic. This thread didnt bow down to King Dustin," How much HP can you make on 93oct"" Thats what threads do post and reply. Someone will agree to disagree.
Hell I argue with my Wife and Kids ever day dont mean I dont like um.To clear up any misconceptions about my feelings toward Dustin when your in town give me a call and me,aj,mark,richie will take ya to Ricks to discuss blowing in further detail.
11-19-2008, 04:54 PM
#118
Registered
I never once knock Dustin.I have no problem with his company and there is allways good out come in a really go discussing. Hes a big boy I think he has handled him self well. My first post/ was give me some good real life #s in a running hull to compare to.
Me spending money should have nothing to do with questioning anyones product. I didnt start by knocking Dustin he made a comment about how much HP his SC made over a 1471 and covered it with 2 lines. I stated give me one comparision were someone changed out 1471 and went to his SC and how much speed did he gain.Bill Pyburn gave his input which I did learn something about 5.0s & 8.3s, you can spend the 8.3S much slower and end up with the same boost.Bill seems happy now not so much at Dessert storm. Dyno sheets have there place and we can claim whatever speed on line we come up with.
Richie Prince with a 36 Eliminator beat Reggie at Jacksonville Poker Run with a boat that on paper ran 25 MPH slower Thanks Richie for starting the hold cat killer I beat Al Copeland in his 40 Skater with twin Rolls Royce turbines that read Worlds Fastest Pleasure Boat
168+. I miss Al but I don t think that hull ever seen 168 if so my GPS was off 14MPH.
I do have a big Skater and no you dont need turbines and Arnesons to go fast. See Byrd 46' 2000 skater with #6 drysumps and full skegs no center rudder. Its powered by some monster JC performance power and knocking on the 200 mark.
Gasoline turbines I would bet not a insurance company around would cover that set up.
I dont care how many OEM users buy wipple products unless there covering my tab i want to know what kind of speed I will gain over my current set up that has never failed for 18- 20K. And when has any thread ever stayed on topic. This thread didnt bow down to King Dustin," How much HP can you make on 93oct"" Thats what threads do post and reply. Someone will agree to disagree.
Hell I argue with my Wife and Kids ever day dont mean I dont like um.To clear up any misconceptions about my feelings toward Dustin when your in town give me a call and me,aj,mark,richie will take ya to Ricks to discuss blowing in further detail.
Me spending money should have nothing to do with questioning anyones product. I didnt start by knocking Dustin he made a comment about how much HP his SC made over a 1471 and covered it with 2 lines. I stated give me one comparision were someone changed out 1471 and went to his SC and how much speed did he gain.Bill Pyburn gave his input which I did learn something about 5.0s & 8.3s, you can spend the 8.3S much slower and end up with the same boost.Bill seems happy now not so much at Dessert storm. Dyno sheets have there place and we can claim whatever speed on line we come up with.
Richie Prince with a 36 Eliminator beat Reggie at Jacksonville Poker Run with a boat that on paper ran 25 MPH slower
Thanks Richie for starting the hold cat killer I beat Al Copeland in his 40 Skater with twin Rolls Royce turbines that read Worlds Fastest Pleasure Boat168+. I miss Al but I don t think that hull ever seen 168 if so my GPS was off 14MPH.
I do have a big Skater and no you dont need turbines and Arnesons to go fast. See Byrd 46' 2000 skater with #6 drysumps and full skegs no center rudder. Its powered by some monster JC performance power and knocking on the 200 mark.
Gasoline turbines
I would bet not a insurance company around would cover that set up.I dont care how many OEM users buy wipple products unless there covering my tab i want to know what kind of speed I will gain over my current set up that has never failed for 18- 20K. And when has any thread ever stayed on topic. This thread didnt bow down to King Dustin," How much HP can you make on 93oct"" Thats what threads do post and reply. Someone will agree to disagree.
Hell I argue with my Wife and Kids ever day dont mean I dont like um.To clear up any misconceptions about my feelings toward Dustin when your in town give me a call and me,aj,mark,richie will take ya to Ricks to discuss blowing in further detail.
11-19-2008, 04:54 PM
#119
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So why don't you try and keep the facts accurate and stick to the post topic, we'll all do the same.
Last edited by Whipple Charged; 11-19-2008 at 05:42 PM.
11-19-2008, 05:03 PM
#120
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The best supercharger ever made by whipple is the R980.
It is Funny how anyone who wants to make big power
uses PSI.
Guys Like Dave Scott, Tom Byrd, Barry Z. Mike D.
When refering to the PSI the only one is the 206b
12lb cut.
But you know that.
Roger says he loves you to by the way.
Its good to see that Dustin is still his number one fan
Didnt your boy Mikey have them r980,s on the xxx when he went to SC to meet reggie. wanna guess what sc reggie had?
It is Funny how anyone who wants to make big power
uses PSI.
Guys Like Dave Scott, Tom Byrd, Barry Z. Mike D.
When refering to the PSI the only one is the 206b
12lb cut.
But you know that.
Roger says he loves you to by the way.
Its good to see that Dustin is still his number one fan
Didnt your boy Mikey have them r980,s on the xxx when he went to SC to meet reggie. wanna guess what sc reggie had?
Again, all the experts. The best race blower we ever built was the A980, not the R980. If I remember correctly, the banned PSI that was the "C" was the best they built, but the "D" was legal. The "B" is not as good as the C or D. We stopped building the 980's for awhile, but its coming back with a bunch of new changes. There were a few that did extensive back to back testing that will tell you what was better. So, the new A980 will be superior, and others will switch in the marine. As I've always said, the PSI makes great HP, nodody has ever questioned that.
The only time a OL used the 980's was when BR installed some motors from Racecrafters, which did extensive testing of all the blowers with Fred M. They had a motor failure, blower made plenty of power, in fact, too much, somewhere near 2000hp.
Last edited by Whipple Charged; 11-19-2008 at 08:58 PM.
