PatriYacht

Wow, you guys are running a lot of pressure on your hyd. rollers. Good to see they can take it and perform well. Thanks for the info.

CcanDo

For clarification,

Are oil restriction plugs recommended when using lifter bore bushings with hydraulic lifters ?

Regardless of block brand, is the lifter bore bushing length critical ? Is the critical length the same for any lifter or is there a guide line length specific to lifter used?

Jessel and others claim to have a proprietary alloy bushing. Do you agree with those claims ?

What is the best way to create a centered and plumb bushing bore ? Then, hone installed bushing to square, ID and centered ?

What is the price range for initially installing lifter bore bushings ? Price range to replace bushings during a refresh ?

MER, Thanks for this VERY important thread !

88Fount33

I will chime in here on the RL-932's.
I have dart block and was running Crowder Hydraulic Rollers without thermostat and had to put pre-lube pump on engine to keep lifters pumped up. Started with 20-50w synthetic Amsoil, but with cold engine had oil pressures of 80 psi + after running (100 + stone cold). Switched to 10-40w and got pressure to 60 psi hot. Never could build heat in engine (540 NA), so installed 120 degree thermostat and saw improvement in oil temp, from 180-200 to 230. When at 230 with gibson down turns and hatch open sounded like all lifters were very loose, about to have failure. I did not even want to run the engine again after that one trip!

Installed Bob's RL-932's (PBM) and running 10-40w NO NOISE at 230 degrees!!!!!! No Noise at cold start either! 10 Hours so far but all low RPM (under 3500).
Got the note about the clearance check and as best as I can measure with snap gage is about the .0015, have to believe that the Crowders were on the small side of .841 and could have been most of the problem with them.
Thanks Bob, I call soon to get my other set!!!

MER Performance

Would never run restrictors,not with todays engineering of lifters even for drag racing. Lenght is determined by lenght of lifter bore in block. The alloy of bushings, I buy them from BHJ, or I can buy them from Precision in Arden, NC. Jesel, sells Keyway lifters and bushings Big $. I use the BHJ lifter true fixture, It's held off the mains a mandrel goes through the cam bore and the top plate holds the drill reamer,it's about2 hrs for machining and about another 1.5 hours to hone, this is done in the milling machine, I hone the block in a honing tanks with hone oil or you can spend about $170,000.00 on a cnc block mill the sizing is done I believe with a reamer. Charge $450. replace bushings $225Bushings cost 6-9 bucks each. The reamer is specific to bushing to bore fit about .0015 press fit. I believe Lifter to bore fit is highly over-looked by many. Hope this helps. Mark

CcanDo

Thanks Mark, Have you seen blocks with lifter bores that are not centered, properly located and/or not square with the cam journals? Were any of those problems to exist, would lifter bore machining/ bushings be the solution ? When those problems/conditions exist, what further problems may be expected ? Is it difficult to determine if the lifter bores are in tolerance without using the BHJ lifter true fixture, cnc block mill or a similar expensive tool ? It has been said, the machinist must be proficent to properly machine and install lifter bore bushings...COMMENT ?

In your opinion, is harmonic vibration related to out of tolerance lifter bores ?

MER Performance

You sound like you already have knowledge related to this subject. I have seen lifter wheel tracking not centered,maybe due to cam location, the fixture can be move forward or back to locate centers. To check for square you would have to set-up off of the cam center and then run 90 degrees off of that with a indicator in the lifter bore, that I have never done. To my understanding the fixture is true to indexing the bores properly. The only other way I would know to check this would be with a digitizer [ spell check] which you would have to have the programed data already. I'am not by anymeans a class A machinist , nor am I a mechanical engineer. I would say, much of the tolerence stacking is a thing of the past. Programs in CNC machining can go wrong and cause problems if undetected. I'am sure they QA every so many. As stated in the begining checking the lifter to bore clearance is the first step. If you are going to open the clearance up you can hone it using the proper equipment and measuring tools. If installing bushings, in a new or used block, you still have to center the fixture to the bore or adjust it for corrections on a used block with location issues. The last question, out of tolerance lifter bores from harmonic vibrations, yes! but, I believe failure of one of the parts will happen first. Wear on the bore being out of round, not having the loads on the lifter centered (off-set- lifters ) with high lift cams and spring pressures, flex in the push-rods, incorrect valve springs. It all comes into play. Testing all these issue have been proven on a spintron. I know that what I do, that if done properly valve train failures are not a problem with me. Having the valve train set-up proper from cam to the valve along with maintainance reduces failures. It comes down to on how hard you push it! We already know how hard hi performance boats push this. I missed some of your questions. The lifter true will correct indexing problems, and tolerance. As i explained you have a 2" round bar in the mains,a cam mandrel that is indexed already, there are 2 end plates, then there is a top plate that is indexed also that attaches to the end plates with adapters for either intake or exhaust which relocateds the angle, these adapters are for rasied cam locations and blocks above 10.200 deck heigths. Also there are different bushings for the mains, a different cam mandrel bbc or sbc and other models. you have to change the angle of the milling head for intake and exhaust. You would really have to not know anything about this to screw-up this operation, if you take your time and pay attention is pretty hard to go wrong on this, the hard part was for BHJ, making it simple for us with less set-up time and measuring.
If you have more questions concerning the valve train, maybe we can get RM BUILDER in here for his input on this, I leave cam and valve spring recommendations up to him, maybe he can give his input on causes to lifter bore out of tolerances, and harmonics. Thanks for the questions.
Here's a question for you. What is mechanical background? I know these guestions are not from the average weekend boater. Mark

CcanDo

Mark, Thanks for taking the time to explain how important and sometimes complicated it can be creating a good dependable valve train.

Hopefully, the honesty, integrity, humility and knowledge you've just shown will be rewarded in the form of business from those who may have read your thread.

Interesting, by comparison to your honorable character, another visible engine builder took exception to dumb questions and chastised, probably me.

In this day and time it is becoming difficult to find loyalty.

He's all yours GUY'S....Give him some business, Mark can handle it !!!

CcanDo

While I don't know Mark, I'm impressed with his response. Therefore, I am of the opinion his thread should stick around to allow everyone interested, the opportunity to read his information.

MER Performance

Thank You! Mark

MER Performance

The merlin block wouldn't give you that problem with those lifters only the hi rev, if only trying to prime it getting oil to flow out of all 16 rockers. Maybe Bob, will have time sometime to explain all of this in his words of knowledge, since he called for the test by me.