Surface drive Tech
04-18-2002, 12:51 AM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Yeah the ASD6 Bravo package... But it costs $10,000 hehe...
And you need to pull the motor and everything...
The only issue between alpha and bravo for what Im talking about is that the parts of the alpha that mount onto the transom are out of patent protection... You would have to cut up Bravo gearcases to legally make anything hook up to the bravo transom, unless you can do it without using any of the patented stuff
BTW that Arneson package has a standoff box that has the tranny in it... and $600? Where you W%$#$^%(*&#^&*#$%^@#!!@ hehehe
--Adam
And you need to pull the motor and everything...
The only issue between alpha and bravo for what Im talking about is that the parts of the alpha that mount onto the transom are out of patent protection... You would have to cut up Bravo gearcases to legally make anything hook up to the bravo transom, unless you can do it without using any of the patented stuff
BTW that Arneson package has a standoff box that has the tranny in it... and $600? Where you W%$#$^%(*&#^&*#$%^@#!!@ hehehe
--Adam
04-18-2002, 01:01 AM
#13
speel chekk this fokker!
Charter Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Locust Valley, New York
Posts: 5,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
meander where did you get an ASD6 for $600?
Contact rik wimp from twindisc. He is on here sometimes too. He knows just about anything you could ever want to know about ASD drives and is happy to help out with them.
As for making them shiftable. This is actually much easier than you would think. I was looking into converting from an alpha on my scarab to an ASD6 but eventually decieded against it.
the enegine will stay in its normal position for eth bravo setup. YOu will install a shiftwable tranhy like for a SSM or TRS drive (Borg Warner, Merc, Cyborg, for big power go with marc's Cyborg tranny from Bam marine) now with the engien in stock position eth tranny shodl be sticking through the transom hole. Twin disc makes a special extension box that covers your esituing transom hole and in effect extends teh transom out a few inches. From what ihear it just bolts right on simple to install. Then your asd will bolt to back of teh extension box and hook up just like if you had room in your engine bay for the engine to be forward with the tranny fully in the boat.
Contact rik wimp from twindisc. He is on here sometimes too. He knows just about anything you could ever want to know about ASD drives and is happy to help out with them.
As for making them shiftable. This is actually much easier than you would think. I was looking into converting from an alpha on my scarab to an ASD6 but eventually decieded against it.
the enegine will stay in its normal position for eth bravo setup. YOu will install a shiftwable tranhy like for a SSM or TRS drive (Borg Warner, Merc, Cyborg, for big power go with marc's Cyborg tranny from Bam marine) now with the engien in stock position eth tranny shodl be sticking through the transom hole. Twin disc makes a special extension box that covers your esituing transom hole and in effect extends teh transom out a few inches. From what ihear it just bolts right on simple to install. Then your asd will bolt to back of teh extension box and hook up just like if you had room in your engine bay for the engine to be forward with the tranny fully in the boat.
__________________
Pardon me, while I whip this out!
Pardon me, while I whip this out!
04-18-2002, 01:02 AM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Bravo isnt an option right now...
And this is really to satisfy my curiosity at the moment. I have lots of time on my hands, and its bothering the hell out of me...
(both the spare time and the drive situation in general)
When I pulled my alpha apart I was almost furious... When looking at exploded diagrams I had thought 'My god this is simple for what they are charging for it'... And I figgured I just was 'missing something'..
When I found out that a $2300 list alpha upper unit was nothing more than a bevel gear set, $40 in bearings, and $50 of aluminum that was made with essentially 30yr old tooling, I got disturbed. When I realised that all the marine shops that sell rebuilt alphas are charging $750-1500 for a few hours of labor and the use of about $1000 in tools (that includes a nice big press)...
So its been bothering me for a while and I started thinking of 1001 ways to build a ghetto-drive [not that I had a concious choice as to wanting to think about it at this point
]
Finally I had a few ideas together in my head and focused on this particular one. Frankly there is nothing I can see about an ASD6 to indicate there isnt a gross margine of about 90%...
So I started assembling this one idea in my head and started researching it... All the while expecting to find out why this 'just wont work'... Frankly the more depth I went into the simpler it all became (things I thought would be huge problems ended up having simple solutions that actually improved / illiminated other issues).
Until I finally threw my hands up at not being able to find any information with respect to surface drives! Thats why I started the thread, and I finally have some seemingly significant challenges to overcome
--Adam
And this is really to satisfy my curiosity at the moment. I have lots of time on my hands, and its bothering the hell out of me...
(both the spare time and the drive situation in general)
When I pulled my alpha apart I was almost furious... When looking at exploded diagrams I had thought 'My god this is simple for what they are charging for it'... And I figgured I just was 'missing something'..
When I found out that a $2300 list alpha upper unit was nothing more than a bevel gear set, $40 in bearings, and $50 of aluminum that was made with essentially 30yr old tooling, I got disturbed. When I realised that all the marine shops that sell rebuilt alphas are charging $750-1500 for a few hours of labor and the use of about $1000 in tools (that includes a nice big press)...
So its been bothering me for a while and I started thinking of 1001 ways to build a ghetto-drive [not that I had a concious choice as to wanting to think about it at this point
] Finally I had a few ideas together in my head and focused on this particular one. Frankly there is nothing I can see about an ASD6 to indicate there isnt a gross margine of about 90%...
So I started assembling this one idea in my head and started researching it... All the while expecting to find out why this 'just wont work'... Frankly the more depth I went into the simpler it all became (things I thought would be huge problems ended up having simple solutions that actually improved / illiminated other issues).
Until I finally threw my hands up at not being able to find any information with respect to surface drives! Thats why I started the thread, and I finally have some seemingly significant challenges to overcome
--Adam
04-18-2002, 01:05 AM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ok here we go...
What about a bravo surface drive. Hear me out. Take a bravo upper and mate it to a custom lower. Aka an IMCO supper shorty but one that went back about 2 feet. Would sort of look like an L. You would have complete bravo shifting, use of aftermarket parts for the upper, steering. Might need some sort of tie bar type arrangement between the upper and the long lower. But I think it could be done...
Adam honestly what you are talking about will cost way more then any bravo or even arneson conversion. $600 for the drive and rams. Had to by the tranny and box but Rik @ arnesion industries helped me out...
Chris
What about a bravo surface drive. Hear me out. Take a bravo upper and mate it to a custom lower. Aka an IMCO supper shorty but one that went back about 2 feet. Would sort of look like an L. You would have complete bravo shifting, use of aftermarket parts for the upper, steering. Might need some sort of tie bar type arrangement between the upper and the long lower. But I think it could be done...
Adam honestly what you are talking about will cost way more then any bravo or even arneson conversion. $600 for the drive and rams. Had to by the tranny and box but Rik @ arnesion industries helped me out...
Chris
04-18-2002, 01:07 AM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Lol Puder
I couldn't affoard your used 1.32 alpha, remember? hehe
And I take back the complaints about the markup on Arneson drives
They are really cool pieces, and they seem to actually engineer their products! [And I think I've read everything google could come up with on the web or usenet relating to ASD's and only one post had anything negative to say, most were glowing praise for Arneson's customer support... And the one that was upset had it pointed out that he was ahh smokin something when he put surface drives on his 60' diesel powered fishing boat with an incompatible hull design]
Unfortunately they need to go after a different market segment
--Adam
I couldn't affoard your used 1.32 alpha, remember? hehe
And I take back the complaints about the markup on Arneson drives
They are really cool pieces, and they seem to actually engineer their products! [And I think I've read everything google could come up with on the web or usenet relating to ASD's and only one post had anything negative to say, most were glowing praise for Arneson's customer support... And the one that was upset had it pointed out that he was ahh smokin something when he put surface drives on his 60' diesel powered fishing boat with an incompatible hull design]
Unfortunately they need to go after a different market segment
--Adam
04-18-2002, 01:15 AM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Puder,
What you speak of ( if it is speaking) is basically what I am doing. However it does not fulfill Adam's requirements to use the original housing. Also Rik works for Arneson Industries and they are who build the extension boxes. Twin Disc is just the manufacturer of the actual drive.
Chris
What you speak of ( if it is speaking) is basically what I am doing. However it does not fulfill Adam's requirements to use the original housing. Also Rik works for Arneson Industries and they are who build the extension boxes. Twin Disc is just the manufacturer of the actual drive.
Chris
04-18-2002, 11:58 AM
#19
speel chekk this fokker!
Charter Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Locust Valley, New York
Posts: 5,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
oh i knew he worked for one of the companies involved and knows just about everything about the drives.
Meander where in NY do you boat?
Meander where in NY do you boat?
__________________
Pardon me, while I whip this out!
Pardon me, while I whip this out!
