alj

I have a Fomula F402 with KAAMA's in it. Motors are fresh and are probably pushing the advertised 500 horsepower although I have no dyno info. Motors are marine LS-6 with lots of goodies. I'm afraid the 17-24 three blade cleavers are not up to the challenge of this boat. I know that four blade 17-24's or 17-25's came on this boat. Does anyone have some experiece with props on this boat (or something similar) with KAAMA's? This monster is 10500 lbs. dry, 300 gallons of fuel, 80 gallons of fresh water and has a 9'4" beam. I've seen large formula's with KAAMA's running huge props. The one I'm thinking of was an F357 with 700hp big blocks. The KAAMA's were spinning four blade 18-30 Kiekauffers and that boat ran almost 85 mph at 5400 rpm. You guys have any suggestions? Boot, I know your ideas. I'm hoping someone has a setup like this and can give us another perspective. Right now there is a problem getting on plane but that is the three blade props I think.

GregP

Can't relly help with the Kaama's, but just thought I'd say Hi from another F402 owner. Mine has TRS, similar HP. When I bought it it had a set of 3-blade ove-hub cleavers on it and it was also nearly impossible to get started. Thru-hub cleavers were better, Mirage another step up, and it's currently running 4 blade Bravo's.

I know the Kaama setup is faster than the TRS (supposedly about 10 mph on same power according to someone who rigged for Formula back then), mine runs right at 60 top.

Feel free to drop an e-mail if you want to chat about the boats. The web page on mine is down at the moment (wife's account was 30 meg over the 5 meg limit on web space), but can e-mail a photo or two.

-Greg

Katdrvr

I had Kaama's on a 30 Sutphen and I ran 17 1/2 x 27 four blades. You might want to find a set of four blade props, I think four blades will push the weight much better and help with getting on plane. Four blade props were much smoother than three blades on my Sutphen and it got on plane much better.

mike

alj

Thanks Gregp and Katdrvr. Do you guys think going to 30 pitch is worth the trouble of trying or is that going to hurt planing? The F357 seems to have a lot of pitch but it has less weight and more horsepower. ( or is that less filling and tastes great?) I know 4 blades have to help this situation. This boat was also rerigged to counter-rotate out. Should I change it back?
Hey katdrvr, is greg right? Will KAAMA's push a boat that much faster? The design of these things is way more efficient, but 15 %?
Greg, you know, everyone kinda chuckles about these old tanks; but they are pretty cool. Best part for me is that the cabin is as big as my buddies Formula 36pc(ok,except the headroom).

Katdrvr

I think 15% might be a little high but 10% is certainly possible. Sutphen told me the kaama boats were 7-10 mph faster.

Have you run the boat since you made the changes? I think the 30 might be an awfull big jump, try the new setup first if you have not yet, and tell us how it worked, planning, cruise and top speed.

I never changed rotation so I can't address that, although I think it might help you plane out.

Also on the Kaama carefull not to over trim, it will really shorten the gimbal bearing life. As you trim out for top speed, try trimming the drive a little higher than normal and allow the rpm's to come up and then trim down slightly to allow the prop to bite more.

Do you need a copy of the Kaama manual?

mike

alj

thanks again mike. Actually I do need the KAAMA manual. I was able to get most everthing for the boat(including a Twin Disc trans manual) from the previous owner but a KAAMA manual would be appreciated. I haven't replaced the three blade props yet, mike, and was hoping to get some solid ideas before plunking down 3 grand on a pair of props. The current setup just doesn't work. Like they say down south- that dog don't hunt. I saw the F357 setup and got to thinking about my own boat. I've seen an ad in powerboat mag for speedmasters of florida I think. I hear they might be able to get me some props. I also heard from Boot that a guy (Nigel Fox?) on Offshore Only was selling props at one time.

kaamacat

alj..........Think Katdrvr is about right. I remember reading a local magazine from back in 86', and a test Formula did with a 30' (311?) with KAAMAs vs TRS was right about 10mph faster, with better fuel economy. I am running 16 1/2 x 26 / 4blade / Sp3's on my cat at the moment. If I find the data I will send it to you.

And a question. When you say trouble getting on plane. Is it just that it takes a while because of the "normal" aeration that happens with the surface drives....?

fishead

I have Kaama's on my 32 foot maelstrom cat.I am running 355cu small blocks at about 425hp each.I have not had the boat in the water yet but the previus owner as well as Michael Peters the designer said he was getting near 90mph.I am redoing th boat and will be on Allatoona and Lanier this summer.With the small blocks I am running 29 inch pitch props.
Fishead

alj

Hey KAAMAcat,
It seems like a big planing problem. The stern won't lift out of the water. I mean minutes. I've tried everything including lightening up the load (draining fuel) Trim down , tabs down , Trim up, Tabs up, everything. I really believe I'm just blowing out these props. On a conventional sterndrive that would be the answer. We definitely have aeration here. ???????
To KATDRVR: I got the attatchment but as you know macs are easily confused. I'm going to email the attatchment to a friend on monday to have her open it and print it for me. If I have a problem, I'll let you know Thanks for the manual.

Katdrvr

Since you are not able to get the boat to plane I would look for a four balde prop as big a diameter you can find, 17 1/2 to 18 with the 6 inch hub 25 pitch. The four baldes will help you carry the weight of that boat. I would not even look for three blade props.

I had four blades on my Sutphen and they would spin up and the boat would just kind of sit there and all of a sudden they would hook up and you were off.

You Mac guys are always causing trouble. I have sent that manual to one or two people with Macs and they could never get it to print.

mike