EFI for everyone
03-18-2012, 09:35 AM
#191
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I agree in a general sense but not so sure about the "easy to use kits for enthusiasts" statement.
Some of the other manufacturers don't package their kits on purpose. Apart from some different applications needing different things, if an enthusiast cant determine which sensors he needs and create a package perhaps the EFI job is a little beyond their scope of ability. After all, that is the easiest part of all.
I guess I'm still a bit nervous for some people buying a "kit" and attempting to do the entire job in their garage at home. Although many may be capable, its the dealer's job to evaluate that they're not selling something that is beyond the scope of the customer and could get them in trouble.
None of this is difficult, and there is no smoke and voodoo, but it does require more understanding than changing your oil and basic maintenance. Lets be clear about that.
Some of the other manufacturers don't package their kits on purpose. Apart from some different applications needing different things, if an enthusiast cant determine which sensors he needs and create a package perhaps the EFI job is a little beyond their scope of ability. After all, that is the easiest part of all.
I guess I'm still a bit nervous for some people buying a "kit" and attempting to do the entire job in their garage at home. Although many may be capable, its the dealer's job to evaluate that they're not selling something that is beyond the scope of the customer and could get them in trouble.
None of this is difficult, and there is no smoke and voodoo, but it does require more understanding than changing your oil and basic maintenance. Lets be clear about that.
03-18-2012, 06:32 PM
#192
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I agree in a general sense but not so sure about the "easy to use kits for enthusiasts" statement.
Some of the other manufacturers don't package their kits on purpose. Apart from some different applications needing different things, if an enthusiast cant determine which sensors he needs and create a package perhaps the EFI job is a little beyond their scope of ability. After all, that is the easiest part of all.
I guess I'm still a bit nervous for some people buying a "kit" and attempting to do the entire job in their garage at home. Although many may be capable, its the dealer's job to evaluate that they're not selling something that is beyond the scope of the customer and could get them in trouble.
None of this is difficult, and there is no smoke and voodoo, but it does require more understanding than changing your oil and basic maintenance. Lets be clear about that.
Some of the other manufacturers don't package their kits on purpose. Apart from some different applications needing different things, if an enthusiast cant determine which sensors he needs and create a package perhaps the EFI job is a little beyond their scope of ability. After all, that is the easiest part of all.
I guess I'm still a bit nervous for some people buying a "kit" and attempting to do the entire job in their garage at home. Although many may be capable, its the dealer's job to evaluate that they're not selling something that is beyond the scope of the customer and could get them in trouble.
None of this is difficult, and there is no smoke and voodoo, but it does require more understanding than changing your oil and basic maintenance. Lets be clear about that.
03-19-2012, 01:21 PM
#193
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That may be a true statement but just to bring this thread back on track.. It's titled "EFI For Everyone" not "the best ecm ever".
There are lots of excellent controllers out there but that doesn't make them easy to aquire, or user friendly. The 555 is great and I don't think I compared the Holley to it anywhere. However, the average Joe might not like paying up to $1000 for a reflash, or sending a box out and waiting 4 months to get it back.
MoTeC, ViPec, Megasquirt, etc. They're all great but they don't come in a kit you can order from Summitt or Jegs, they don't come packaged with every sensor and harness you need, they're not all waterproof and or USCG approved.
When you're talking about resolution, or sophistication, this kit is basically an excellent replacement for the MEFI 3's and 4's or for a guy wanting to get rid of his carb(s) with a ton of extra features to boot. MEFI can't even begin to compete with the Holley yet the MEFI is still good enough for Teagues 1300+hp engines and Eddie's, and other's too. So how good does it really need to be? I think when you get into individual cylinder mapping and the amount of testing and data acquisition that goes with it you're well past the "EFI for everyone" portion of the group. I'm excited about how available EFI is becoming for the marine market and I know lots of others are as well. I think the new marine XFI from FAST is gonna be great too because like Holley they package easy to use kits for enthusiasts. Happy St. Pats' everyone
There are lots of excellent controllers out there but that doesn't make them easy to aquire, or user friendly. The 555 is great and I don't think I compared the Holley to it anywhere. However, the average Joe might not like paying up to $1000 for a reflash, or sending a box out and waiting 4 months to get it back.
MoTeC, ViPec, Megasquirt, etc. They're all great but they don't come in a kit you can order from Summitt or Jegs, they don't come packaged with every sensor and harness you need, they're not all waterproof and or USCG approved.
When you're talking about resolution, or sophistication, this kit is basically an excellent replacement for the MEFI 3's and 4's or for a guy wanting to get rid of his carb(s) with a ton of extra features to boot. MEFI can't even begin to compete with the Holley yet the MEFI is still good enough for Teagues 1300+hp engines and Eddie's, and other's too. So how good does it really need to be? I think when you get into individual cylinder mapping and the amount of testing and data acquisition that goes with it you're well past the "EFI for everyone" portion of the group. I'm excited about how available EFI is becoming for the marine market and I know lots of others are as well. I think the new marine XFI from FAST is gonna be great too because like Holley they package easy to use kits for enthusiasts. Happy St. Pats' everyone
NA is a lot easier than SC, as your typically not on the borderline of self destruction, but in a SC form, its not as easy as just picking a targeted AF and letting her go. I can't tell you how many systems I've worked on and I'll see the customers or tuners just turned the O2 correction on max and didn't even map the engine, but that never works long term. One is suppose to map the engine with zero correction, get it as close as one can be, and then use the O2 to just do a light amount of clean up. The one great thing I see is the table for controlling the O2 correction. I like this factor, as you can turn it off at the higher load levels and just clean up part throttle/low load.
Another note is that closed loop has serious issues at idle with many of the exhaust systems we run. So if you keep this in consideration, and have someone qualified set these systems up for the customers, along with some simple guidelines, then I think you have something that will work great.
As for waiting 4 months for a reflash, I don't know who does that, most do it in 1 day. Also, a reflash on a MEFI is $300, but if purchased in a system, its free.
03-20-2012, 08:55 AM
#194
Geronimo36
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If everything works perfect, then things go smoothly, but in a lot of cases, it does not. Just knowing that most cheap wide bands are .5 AF off from the real air fuel is perfect example. Tune for 12:1 and your really 12.5:1. Most SC'd motors are close to detonation at that air fuel through peak torque.
03-20-2012, 06:18 PM
#195
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Low load, cruising is usually 13:1, and progressively get richer with increased load/pressure.
Cast iron heads, add .75 to the air fuel.
This is just my rule of thumb, and using the best wide bands you can use. We always try to leave a little on the table for a "margin for error". All applications are different so there's always exceptions.
08-17-2012, 09:58 AM
#198
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I like em chubby! 11.5
i LIKE EM CHUBBY 11.5 WITH HIGH BOOST, However cylinder head chamber design and pistons assist to that answer.
Aluminum head is usually 12:25 during WOT low to mid rpm and 12.0:1 @ WOT at higher rpm's. This is with pump gas, with leaded race fuel, usually take .50 AF away. This gives a decent margin.
Low load, cruising is usually 13:1, and progressively get richer with increased load/pressure.
Cast iron heads, add .75 to the air fuel.
This is just my rule of thumb, and using the best wide bands you can use. We always try to leave a little on the table for a "margin for error". All applications are different so there's always exceptions.
Low load, cruising is usually 13:1, and progressively get richer with increased load/pressure.
Cast iron heads, add .75 to the air fuel.
This is just my rule of thumb, and using the best wide bands you can use. We always try to leave a little on the table for a "margin for error". All applications are different so there's always exceptions.
08-17-2012, 05:31 PM
#199
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Questions for the wise ones on here.
Can the Holley efi drive more than one iac? I'm looking at converting my roots blower motors to efi using twin throttle bodies.
I'm open to suggestions on which injector plate and throttle bodies to use and is the holley ecm a good choice for this application?
Can the Holley efi drive more than one iac? I'm looking at converting my roots blower motors to efi using twin throttle bodies.
I'm open to suggestions on which injector plate and throttle bodies to use and is the holley ecm a good choice for this application?
