Whipple problems
07-03-2002, 12:35 PM
#21
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Posts: n/a
You told me you would be able to program the ECU "close" to where it should be. And you told me that I would probably be able to fine tune it for a hair more power later on. I am not even asking for any fine tuning here, just a base program that will run this engine within reasonable safety. As for putting a Mag head or some Dart head on my boat, those heads would have really made a significant airflow change but STILL wouldnt have affected the boat starting. A Mag head is nothing like a L-29 combustion chamber, or airflow. The mag head allows for the use of a dome-top piston therefore if I used those heads on my engine i would have lost a significant amount of compression. The Mag head also uses a square intake port unlike the L-29s large oval. That would have cause tuning problems throughout the RPM range. Changing a cam? That would definately be more complicated than what I have done as far as tuning is concerned.
I used the GenV head which has virtually identical airflow characteristics, only 8-10cc combustion chamber differences, and when used with a flat top piston I only lose 0.6:1 compression ratio. When using in conjunction with forced induction these differences have minimal effects on tuning. In fact these changes only allow for 2 more degrees of total timing. So if you would use the program that you know works for an L-29 equipped engine I will run as I should but not having the detonation issues caused by the widows peak in the L-29 combustion chamber.
So here is an idea, when you reprogram the ECU this time just forget that I changed my heads. Program the ECU for a Whipple supercharger on a GenVI block using the L-29 heads, otherwise known as a 7.4 MPI. Thats what the kit was intended for and you say you know how to program it for that combination right?
I used the GenV head which has virtually identical airflow characteristics, only 8-10cc combustion chamber differences, and when used with a flat top piston I only lose 0.6:1 compression ratio. When using in conjunction with forced induction these differences have minimal effects on tuning. In fact these changes only allow for 2 more degrees of total timing. So if you would use the program that you know works for an L-29 equipped engine I will run as I should but not having the detonation issues caused by the widows peak in the L-29 combustion chamber.
So here is an idea, when you reprogram the ECU this time just forget that I changed my heads. Program the ECU for a Whipple supercharger on a GenVI block using the L-29 heads, otherwise known as a 7.4 MPI. Thats what the kit was intended for and you say you know how to program it for that combination right?
Last edited by NineLives; 07-03-2002 at 01:34 PM.
07-03-2002, 01:37 PM
#22
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Ninelives, you may want to just fly someone out to program the compuert as Dustin suggested. That is what I had to do. I have the same motor you have. I switched my L29 heads out for some oval port, casr iron, closed chamber heads from a 1969 396. The intake ports are about 1.5 times larger than the L29. I know what you are going thruogh. I went through the same mess with sending back computers multiple times. I wish I would have done it different because it would have saved me alot of money and frustration in the long run.
One more thing, if the computer is programmed on the water you will at least have peace of mind knowing that it is right and not a guess or generic program.
One more thing, if the computer is programmed on the water you will at least have peace of mind knowing that it is right and not a guess or generic program.
07-04-2002, 08:32 AM
#23
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9Lives:
Man, I feel for 'ya. Hang in there... the only "good" thing I can say is that you are not alone in being boatless. Misery loves company, so feel free to e-mail me if you'd like.
It seems a reocurring theme with cars and boats -> K.I.S.S. - Keep It Stock Sh*thead (this is not directed at you in any way). The only motorsport I have been into where aftermarket mods have seem to be painless and highly reliable is motorcycles (Jap bikes, to be specific).
a rambling:
Was into hotrods 10 years ago.... bought all the "good stuff"..... In one season, motor needed teardown twice - they finally realized that they had used something wrong in the valve train - this piece was breaking off, and getting past the screen in the oil pump p/u, but too big to fit through the pump's gears. This motor was made by a large, reputable performance machine shop, who was featured several times in Hot Rod magazine.
I had a 454BBC bored over 0.030", rather mild - 500hp/tq. I loved bangin' the gears, so I spent a ton on a Richmond (Doug Nash) 5 speed, instead of going with the Turbo 400 auto. I aligned the center of the (blowproof) bellhousing to within 0.005" of the crank centerline (back in the days when we could do *real* "government jobs" in our machine shop - LOL). That damn tranny came out no less than 3 times in one season! Twice I sent it to Richmond for them to fix (free, except for shipping), the last time I took it apart myself and replaced a "bad" bearing. The time I took it apart and fixed it, it lasted the longest - and this was the first time I'd ever cracked a tranny open.
I ended up selling the car a year later, for 50% of what I had into it (I still had the original motor, but it was a 2bbl 350 lo-po). After 1.5 years on that "restification" project, from the (sub) frame off, I thought I'd be sad to see it go. But it was one of the happiest days of my life - so much less to worry about!
The project turned out "looking" great................ but what a f'ing pain in the ass it was turning wrenches all the time.
I guess for some, it just takes longer to learn from their mistakes. I have a 7.4MPI......... I WAS thinking about just Whipple Charging it, instead of going with a non-stock motor.... I just heard too many people telling me NOT to put a blower on that motor. I said it before in another thread - spend as much money as you can on stock hi-po, and as little as possible on aftermarket hi-po. I understand that there are many satisfied Whipple customers, but as a whole, you can't beat stock for reliability and peace of mind.
Man, I feel for 'ya. Hang in there... the only "good" thing I can say is that you are not alone in being boatless. Misery loves company, so feel free to e-mail me if you'd like.
It seems a reocurring theme with cars and boats -> K.I.S.S. - Keep It Stock Sh*thead (this is not directed at you in any way). The only motorsport I have been into where aftermarket mods have seem to be painless and highly reliable is motorcycles (Jap bikes, to be specific).
a rambling:
Was into hotrods 10 years ago.... bought all the "good stuff"..... In one season, motor needed teardown twice - they finally realized that they had used something wrong in the valve train - this piece was breaking off, and getting past the screen in the oil pump p/u, but too big to fit through the pump's gears. This motor was made by a large, reputable performance machine shop, who was featured several times in Hot Rod magazine.
I had a 454BBC bored over 0.030", rather mild - 500hp/tq. I loved bangin' the gears, so I spent a ton on a Richmond (Doug Nash) 5 speed, instead of going with the Turbo 400 auto. I aligned the center of the (blowproof) bellhousing to within 0.005" of the crank centerline (back in the days when we could do *real* "government jobs" in our machine shop - LOL). That damn tranny came out no less than 3 times in one season! Twice I sent it to Richmond for them to fix (free, except for shipping), the last time I took it apart myself and replaced a "bad" bearing. The time I took it apart and fixed it, it lasted the longest - and this was the first time I'd ever cracked a tranny open.
I ended up selling the car a year later, for 50% of what I had into it (I still had the original motor, but it was a 2bbl 350 lo-po). After 1.5 years on that "restification" project, from the (sub) frame off, I thought I'd be sad to see it go. But it was one of the happiest days of my life - so much less to worry about!
The project turned out "looking" great................ but what a f'ing pain in the ass it was turning wrenches all the time.
I guess for some, it just takes longer to learn from their mistakes. I have a 7.4MPI......... I WAS thinking about just Whipple Charging it, instead of going with a non-stock motor.... I just heard too many people telling me NOT to put a blower on that motor. I said it before in another thread - spend as much money as you can on stock hi-po, and as little as possible on aftermarket hi-po. I understand that there are many satisfied Whipple customers, but as a whole, you can't beat stock for reliability and peace of mind.
07-05-2002, 01:24 PM
#24
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Posts: n/a
GREAT NEWS!!! ECU arrived this morning and the boat fired right up! Threw a TPS code but i was able to adjust the sensor to within range. No other codes or problems so far. Boat seems to idle well and goes through the RPM band smoothly. I'm taking it to the lake so i can get a real water test on it. Crossing my fingers and hoping all goes well. Looks like Dustin came through, Thanks!
07-05-2002, 10:46 PM
#28
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Just got back from water testing the boat. Runs a tad rich under 1200 rpm but doesnt smell rich so i doubt its too bad. It seems to foul the plugs if I idle for too long but cleans up as soon as it hits 1500 rpm. No major problems so far.
Only setback was my propeller. I have the lab finished 24p bravo which is what I had been using on the stock engine. That prop gave me about 60 mph on the gps most of the time. I had a nice 28p 3 blade prop to test on the boat but it wouldnt get on a plane before it blew out. At first I thought I broke the gimbal or somthing major but with my passenger watching the water you could actually see the aeration happen just as the boat nosed down. Very frustrating to me considering the prop had just come off a boat that made an 80mph pass with no trouble. I think it is the step in my hull causing a disagreement with a three blade prop. I will get a 4 blade on monday.
So just for this weekend I will be motoring around on the 24p bravo. So far the boat is 5 mph faster per RPM than it was the last time it was on the water. I am only using 37% throttle at max and hitting over 65 Mph at just about 4400 Rpm. Really doesent make much sense that I can go faster at the same Rpm with the same prop but I really am. Last time out with the stock engine and less than 1/2 tank of fuel I was at 60 Mph at 4600 trimmed out and using all the throttle I had. I was running a full tank of gas and tools today. Barely got into any boost, no detonation as of yet but I dont have a usable prop big enough to really load this thing down. I do know that this thing has a lot more to go. It was just starting to really get going at 65 Mph but I had to keep outta it for redlines sake. So far so good.
The Whipple is dead quiet with the hatch down, hatch up and you have to know what to listen for to really hear it.
I am happy that everything seems to be working out now. Really puts a smile on my face.
Only setback was my propeller. I have the lab finished 24p bravo which is what I had been using on the stock engine. That prop gave me about 60 mph on the gps most of the time. I had a nice 28p 3 blade prop to test on the boat but it wouldnt get on a plane before it blew out. At first I thought I broke the gimbal or somthing major but with my passenger watching the water you could actually see the aeration happen just as the boat nosed down. Very frustrating to me considering the prop had just come off a boat that made an 80mph pass with no trouble. I think it is the step in my hull causing a disagreement with a three blade prop. I will get a 4 blade on monday.
So just for this weekend I will be motoring around on the 24p bravo. So far the boat is 5 mph faster per RPM than it was the last time it was on the water. I am only using 37% throttle at max and hitting over 65 Mph at just about 4400 Rpm. Really doesent make much sense that I can go faster at the same Rpm with the same prop but I really am. Last time out with the stock engine and less than 1/2 tank of fuel I was at 60 Mph at 4600 trimmed out and using all the throttle I had. I was running a full tank of gas and tools today. Barely got into any boost, no detonation as of yet but I dont have a usable prop big enough to really load this thing down. I do know that this thing has a lot more to go. It was just starting to really get going at 65 Mph but I had to keep outta it for redlines sake. So far so good.
The Whipple is dead quiet with the hatch down, hatch up and you have to know what to listen for to really hear it.
I am happy that everything seems to be working out now. Really puts a smile on my face.
07-05-2002, 11:20 PM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
NineLives: Glad it seems to be working out for you. I have a Velocity 280 with a Whipplecharged 502 Mag and am extremely pleased. I have about 70 hours on the Whipple without a problem and it runs great. I gained about 15mph.
Forget about 3 bladed props and full throttle starts. All you'll do is break the prop loose. You have too much torque now. I use a Bravo 1 30" and come out at about 2800rpm and it pops right up. That's also a lot easier on your outdrive.
Good luck and have fun ...
Forget about 3 bladed props and full throttle starts. All you'll do is break the prop loose. You have too much torque now. I use a Bravo 1 30" and come out at about 2800rpm and it pops right up. That's also a lot easier on your outdrive.
Good luck and have fun ...
07-05-2002, 11:35 PM
#30
Registered
I would guess that the MPH increase at the same rpm would be because with the additional power you are able to use less trim, therefore the prop is more efficent.
That's my guess anyway
That's my guess anyway
