Done with solid roller cams !
08-11-2002, 10:16 PM
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Done with solid roller cams !
I broke another lifter today. This is the second one in 81 hours of use on this motor.
I'm not blaming the manufacture , I just don't think they can make solid roller that will last in a marine application. The first set lasted 30 hours and now this one broke with 50 hours on it.
Now I have to do some research on what hydralic will get me close to the power I'm making now.
Either way it is still going to suck because I will be slower.
I'm not blaming the manufacture , I just don't think they can make solid roller that will last in a marine application. The first set lasted 30 hours and now this one broke with 50 hours on it.
Now I have to do some research on what hydralic will get me close to the power I'm making now.
Either way it is still going to suck because I will be slower.
08-11-2002, 10:48 PM
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Chuck,
Hopefully you caught it before it did any other damage. BTW, I have a hyd. roller with dyno time on it only. Ultradyne, 244*/244* .601"/.601" lift on a 112* Lobe, billet w/cast gear. It made 699hp and 692 foot pounds of torque at 5750rpm with 34* timing on Tom Earhart's dyno. His dyno is within 1-2% of SAE standards. Give me a call 616-291-7932
Mark/KAAMA
Hopefully you caught it before it did any other damage. BTW, I have a hyd. roller with dyno time on it only. Ultradyne, 244*/244* .601"/.601" lift on a 112* Lobe, billet w/cast gear. It made 699hp and 692 foot pounds of torque at 5750rpm with 34* timing on Tom Earhart's dyno. His dyno is within 1-2% of SAE standards. Give me a call 616-291-7932
Mark/KAAMA
Last edited by KAAMA; 08-11-2002 at 10:54 PM.
08-12-2002, 08:55 AM
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Hey thanks for the offer Mark,
But I'm going to do some research before I buy anything. Plus I have to decide whether to call it a season or thrash to get it done. Since the motor has to come out I plane on freshening it (rings, bearings, rod bolts and valve job) and that really isn't in the budget right now but the end of the season is a long ways off, so I really don't know what to do.
But I'm going to do some research before I buy anything. Plus I have to decide whether to call it a season or thrash to get it done. Since the motor has to come out I plane on freshening it (rings, bearings, rod bolts and valve job) and that really isn't in the budget right now but the end of the season is a long ways off, so I really don't know what to do.
08-12-2002, 10:21 AM
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Don't feel bad...I just put a set of 99377s in one of my 540s and it collapsed after about 20 minutes...
I have feeling there is a problem with this new manufacturer of the bodies...
I have feeling there is a problem with this new manufacturer of the bodies...
08-14-2002, 07:50 AM
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Well I got the motor apart last night.
Nothing real bad ... needle bearings came out of the lifter. Luckly no serious damage. I could probably put a set of lifters in it and be back on the water.
I've been talking to a couple of reputable custom cam manufactures about hydraulic rollers and I just find it hard to believe what they are telling me. I was always under the impression that the reason you couldn't run an aggresive hydraulic is because you can't get enough spring pressure well these guys are talking spring pressures right around what I have now for my solid roller.
I might end up keeping the solid roller , I'm kind of undecided at this moment.
I tried to contact (email)some of the big engine builders from this boards links but got no return... not too surprised . I'm not spending 100k with them so why would they bother.
Nothing real bad ... needle bearings came out of the lifter. Luckly no serious damage. I could probably put a set of lifters in it and be back on the water.
I've been talking to a couple of reputable custom cam manufactures about hydraulic rollers and I just find it hard to believe what they are telling me. I was always under the impression that the reason you couldn't run an aggresive hydraulic is because you can't get enough spring pressure well these guys are talking spring pressures right around what I have now for my solid roller.
I might end up keeping the solid roller , I'm kind of undecided at this moment.
I tried to contact (email)some of the big engine builders from this boards links but got no return... not too surprised . I'm not spending 100k with them so why would they bother.
08-14-2002, 01:26 PM
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26 scarab
I have a set of schubeck's radius lifters going in this week, motor should be on the dyno early next week. I will post results when i get them and will have a good baseline to compare with because I went with the same cam specs (you have to buy cam and lifters together) as I had before with the exception being i took out .040" lift. Check out his website schubeckracing.com I did a ton of research on these before I decided to try them and it seems they are working quite well in marine and circle track applications. 2 NHRA pro stock teams will be running these lifters next year.
I have a set of schubeck's radius lifters going in this week, motor should be on the dyno early next week. I will post results when i get them and will have a good baseline to compare with because I went with the same cam specs (you have to buy cam and lifters together) as I had before with the exception being i took out .040" lift. Check out his website schubeckracing.com I did a ton of research on these before I decided to try them and it seems they are working quite well in marine and circle track applications. 2 NHRA pro stock teams will be running these lifters next year.
08-14-2002, 10:04 PM
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Chuck,
That sucks that is broke, but you are lucky the damage was light!! Did it hurt the cam lobe at all? If the lobe is not damaged, then the rest of the motor will be ok, unless some the bearings jammed up on their way down to the oil pan.. it is probably safe to say you could just refill the hole and go. What roller lifters are you using anyway? If you are talking a rebuild this winter.. put some lifters in it and go.. Life is too short. We have been using Isky rollers over here with some degree of luck.
I tried to give you a call a week or two ago.. but we didnt connect. It has been major hectic on this side of the state.. Sorry!
jdnca1
I am running Shubeck lifters, but they are the Flat Tappet type. So far so good, but the non roller cam is dead on top end. But i am boating and it can idle all day at 630 rpm in gear.. Let us know how the radiused lifters work out.. It would be worth the money if they do!!
That sucks that is broke, but you are lucky the damage was light!! Did it hurt the cam lobe at all? If the lobe is not damaged, then the rest of the motor will be ok, unless some the bearings jammed up on their way down to the oil pan.. it is probably safe to say you could just refill the hole and go. What roller lifters are you using anyway? If you are talking a rebuild this winter.. put some lifters in it and go.. Life is too short. We have been using Isky rollers over here with some degree of luck.
I tried to give you a call a week or two ago.. but we didnt connect. It has been major hectic on this side of the state.. Sorry!
jdnca1
I am running Shubeck lifters, but they are the Flat Tappet type. So far so good, but the non roller cam is dead on top end. But i am boating and it can idle all day at 630 rpm in gear.. Let us know how the radiused lifters work out.. It would be worth the money if they do!!
08-15-2002, 08:15 AM
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Jdnca1,
Let me know how those Shubeck lifters work... could be something I will try next year.
Mr. Gadgets,
Glad to hear your still running. So far mine doesn't look too bad, I haven't had a chance to pull a rod and main cap yet but the cam might still be usable.
Of the four close people I know with solid rollers two of us have had problems and two have gotten 100 hours and over on theirs. The only difference being they have rev kits and myself and the other don't. That must be the difference, the lifter stays on the cam lobe during extended periods of idle and maybe it helps with any harmonics problems.
I'm going to try the Crowers with a rev kit, I was talking with a good friend last night about lifters, he's been having problems too (drag car- #400 on seat/#1050 open) and he called Isky and they told him there's no way thier lifter could handle that and then suggested Crower , stating they make a little heavier duty roller than they do. My friend ended up with Jesels but I can't afford that right now.
I also talked with a guy in TN that grinds his own cams and makes there own lifters (buys bodies and adds his own bearings and rollers) and he claims his stuff is better than the others but I have never heard of them (Lazer cams) . Who knows ?!?
Let me know how those Shubeck lifters work... could be something I will try next year.
Mr. Gadgets,
Glad to hear your still running. So far mine doesn't look too bad, I haven't had a chance to pull a rod and main cap yet but the cam might still be usable.
Of the four close people I know with solid rollers two of us have had problems and two have gotten 100 hours and over on theirs. The only difference being they have rev kits and myself and the other don't. That must be the difference, the lifter stays on the cam lobe during extended periods of idle and maybe it helps with any harmonics problems.
I'm going to try the Crowers with a rev kit, I was talking with a good friend last night about lifters, he's been having problems too (drag car- #400 on seat/#1050 open) and he called Isky and they told him there's no way thier lifter could handle that and then suggested Crower , stating they make a little heavier duty roller than they do. My friend ended up with Jesels but I can't afford that right now.
I also talked with a guy in TN that grinds his own cams and makes there own lifters (buys bodies and adds his own bearings and rollers) and he claims his stuff is better than the others but I have never heard of them (Lazer cams) . Who knows ?!?
08-15-2002, 09:05 AM
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jdnca1,
I am very interested in knowing how the Schubeck cam/radius lifters turn out. I like Schubeck's concept, but I would like to know how they do in a marine engine before I buy. I came very close to trying them about a year and a half ago, but decided against it because for the marine engine environment the research just was not there. I am already going to try Schubeck's rocker arms---no roller tips and no needle bearings. Just the low friction material, improved oiling, and 17 grams lighter over the spring.
Chuck, glad you didn't hurt anything further---at least you still might be able to go boating.
Hey Gadgets!
I am very interested in knowing how the Schubeck cam/radius lifters turn out. I like Schubeck's concept, but I would like to know how they do in a marine engine before I buy. I came very close to trying them about a year and a half ago, but decided against it because for the marine engine environment the research just was not there. I am already going to try Schubeck's rocker arms---no roller tips and no needle bearings. Just the low friction material, improved oiling, and 17 grams lighter over the spring.
Chuck, glad you didn't hurt anything further---at least you still might be able to go boating.
Hey Gadgets!
Last edited by KAAMA; 08-15-2002 at 09:07 AM.
08-15-2002, 09:01 PM
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I have seen the Crowers and they have a wider roller than some of the others. I agree on the idle issues you mentioned. I to am nervous about the lifter life in my motor, but so far I have a whopping 15 hrs on the motor with no probs and very little idle time on it. I am running comp racing lifters and the 951 spring. I only put 10 hrs or less per year on the motor so I will probably try to get one more season (a total of 25 hrs) out of the springs and lifters and then I will put in new ones. In my opinion it is probably not a bad idea to change lifters and springs every 50 to 75 hrs. Pretty salty, but cheap insurance. My dads small block powered boat has been running the same solid rollers and springs for 7 seasons. They seem easier on parts than BBC's.
