Need help, no oil to rockers on 5.7 sbc - long description!!!! sorry!
07-16-2015, 09:12 PM
#1
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Need help, no oil to rockers on 5.7 sbc - long description!!!! sorry!
I am at the point that I really need some guidance and tech knowledge now on oiling of Chevy rocker arms for hydraulic roller lifters. I am having trouble with getting oil to the rocker arms. Unfortunately there is a bit of background to the problem. These motors were rebuilt from L31 truck vortec motors back in 2013/14. Oh, 1986 Formula 272 LS with 5.7L Vortec carb motors.
Summer of 2014 was very cool and we were really busy, so ran the motors on a hose in the summer of 2014. At that time, the star-board motor had really high oil pressure. Like 70 pounds at idle and pegged with any rpm increase. Running a 50 weight motor oil also and tried different sending units. Just didn’t sound right, so I yanked the motor back out, removed the pan and put a new oil pump in it. I looked at the main bearings and everything looked good, so I knew the mains were getting oil. No metal flakes in the crankcase oil either. I also pulled the intake manifold so I could look at the lifters. I pulled the exhaust lifter on piston #1, front lifter, and spun the oil pump with a drill. Oil gushed into the empty lifter hole and it felt OK. Put the motor back in and went out and ran it after it looked better on the hose. Not perfect, but better. Got on plane for about 2 miles, slowed down and could hear clicking coming from that motor.
So back in the shop I find out that the #1 lifter had come loose, I did not tighten the set screw on the lifter nut. Put that back together and test it on the hose, sounds fine but late in the year so I winterize it and put it away. Fast forward to this summer…..
So in the beginning of 2015 I pulled the valve covers on the motor to check the valve settings. I noticed most of the new rockers had oil cooked onto them like they were really hot. Pulled the cover on the other motor and the lifters looked new. So now I know my high oil pressure (70+) is a problem and my lifters are not getting oil up to the rocker arms. So I start checking things out and I find that my remote oil filter is backwards. No idea how long it has been like that, I did not take the hoses off of it last winter, so I can only assume my old mechanic had it that way from the beginning? Or maybe I did it, not sure. But it was backwards and the filters have the anti-drain back valves in them (ADBV). So I checked the rockers, changed the hoses and did several cranking sessions on it to build pressure. Oil finally started coming out of 15 of the 16 pushrods. So I started it back up. Did much better, imagine that, even sounded pretty good. Problem is the exhaust on cylinder #2 still did not get oil to the rocker. I had already manually oiled the rockers, so wasn’t worried about further damage, but the lifters are just not pushing oil like they are supposed to.
Along the odd cylinder bank, the exhaust valve on 1 (end lifter) had great oil flow. About half the lifters flow oil well, another quarter marginally and the last 4 not at all or minimal. But they are all over, so not like the passage is blocked at some point. Oil comes from the back and goes forward through the lifter galley, so if end one has it, they all have it. Inspected the rockers and as expected, there was some galling on the rocker balls.
At this point, the motor will idle great and the oil pressure is right at 40 – 45 psi after fixing the remote oil hoses. So I ordered a whole new set of GM roller lifters and a new set of roller tip rockers for the motor along with new intake gaskets. With the lifters out and the oil pump adapter in, I spin the oil filter. Oil gushes out of both lifter holes. I place the back lifters in and work my way forward, making sure oil flows out of the next hole once lifters are in. Goes fine all the way forward. With the lifter in and running the oil pump, the lifter galley fills with oil as it flows out of the lifters, so I am thinking I am good. I put in different pushrods from a L31 (same) and a new set of rocker arms. I have cranked the motor over multiple times, ran it in short burst and this last time I ran it on the hose for over 3 minutes. No oil is coming out of the pushrods. None. Other motor is looking fine, plenty of oil on the rockers and flowing on the head.
What am I doing wrong? What can I check? If the back galley has oil pressure, doesn’t the motor have oil? I set the valves to zero lash plus ˝ a turn on the nuts. The motor sounds fine, idles great. Oil looks good. Do I need to pull the motor again. Pull the pressure sending unit and check for the block plug? Why do I have 40 – 50 pi of oil pressure, flow through the lifter galleys and not oil in the rockers? Really could use some suggestions. I have nothing and the tequila from the margarita's is now kicking in.....
Summer of 2014 was very cool and we were really busy, so ran the motors on a hose in the summer of 2014. At that time, the star-board motor had really high oil pressure. Like 70 pounds at idle and pegged with any rpm increase. Running a 50 weight motor oil also and tried different sending units. Just didn’t sound right, so I yanked the motor back out, removed the pan and put a new oil pump in it. I looked at the main bearings and everything looked good, so I knew the mains were getting oil. No metal flakes in the crankcase oil either. I also pulled the intake manifold so I could look at the lifters. I pulled the exhaust lifter on piston #1, front lifter, and spun the oil pump with a drill. Oil gushed into the empty lifter hole and it felt OK. Put the motor back in and went out and ran it after it looked better on the hose. Not perfect, but better. Got on plane for about 2 miles, slowed down and could hear clicking coming from that motor.
So back in the shop I find out that the #1 lifter had come loose, I did not tighten the set screw on the lifter nut. Put that back together and test it on the hose, sounds fine but late in the year so I winterize it and put it away. Fast forward to this summer…..
So in the beginning of 2015 I pulled the valve covers on the motor to check the valve settings. I noticed most of the new rockers had oil cooked onto them like they were really hot. Pulled the cover on the other motor and the lifters looked new. So now I know my high oil pressure (70+) is a problem and my lifters are not getting oil up to the rocker arms. So I start checking things out and I find that my remote oil filter is backwards. No idea how long it has been like that, I did not take the hoses off of it last winter, so I can only assume my old mechanic had it that way from the beginning? Or maybe I did it, not sure. But it was backwards and the filters have the anti-drain back valves in them (ADBV). So I checked the rockers, changed the hoses and did several cranking sessions on it to build pressure. Oil finally started coming out of 15 of the 16 pushrods. So I started it back up. Did much better, imagine that, even sounded pretty good. Problem is the exhaust on cylinder #2 still did not get oil to the rocker. I had already manually oiled the rockers, so wasn’t worried about further damage, but the lifters are just not pushing oil like they are supposed to.
Along the odd cylinder bank, the exhaust valve on 1 (end lifter) had great oil flow. About half the lifters flow oil well, another quarter marginally and the last 4 not at all or minimal. But they are all over, so not like the passage is blocked at some point. Oil comes from the back and goes forward through the lifter galley, so if end one has it, they all have it. Inspected the rockers and as expected, there was some galling on the rocker balls.
At this point, the motor will idle great and the oil pressure is right at 40 – 45 psi after fixing the remote oil hoses. So I ordered a whole new set of GM roller lifters and a new set of roller tip rockers for the motor along with new intake gaskets. With the lifters out and the oil pump adapter in, I spin the oil filter. Oil gushes out of both lifter holes. I place the back lifters in and work my way forward, making sure oil flows out of the next hole once lifters are in. Goes fine all the way forward. With the lifter in and running the oil pump, the lifter galley fills with oil as it flows out of the lifters, so I am thinking I am good. I put in different pushrods from a L31 (same) and a new set of rocker arms. I have cranked the motor over multiple times, ran it in short burst and this last time I ran it on the hose for over 3 minutes. No oil is coming out of the pushrods. None. Other motor is looking fine, plenty of oil on the rockers and flowing on the head.
What am I doing wrong? What can I check? If the back galley has oil pressure, doesn’t the motor have oil? I set the valves to zero lash plus ˝ a turn on the nuts. The motor sounds fine, idles great. Oil looks good. Do I need to pull the motor again. Pull the pressure sending unit and check for the block plug? Why do I have 40 – 50 pi of oil pressure, flow through the lifter galleys and not oil in the rockers? Really could use some suggestions. I have nothing and the tequila from the margarita's is now kicking in.....
07-16-2015, 09:46 PM
#3
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Could be missing plugs in the front of the block. Might want to try some thinner oil. if you can take a piece of aluminum in a lathe make a test tool same diameter as lifter and put a band around it and a connecting hole up to the top for a gauge and prime it and see if there is pressure. 50w is kind of heavy for stock lifters
07-16-2015, 10:42 PM
#4
Registered
^^^^^^ 50 wt oil could be a big part of your problem.first thing i would do is dump the oil and try it with 5w30.i will almost bet that you get oil to the rockers quickly with the thinner oil.
07-25-2015, 08:47 AM
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What distributor is in the motor? The distributor shafts casing and where the shaft collars sit in the motor is key to oiling the top end of the motor. Some MSD distributors have to be milled. Rockers get oil thru the pushrods from the lifters. Does the motor have a lot of top end noise? If the lifters aren't filling with oil they'd allow lash in the top end creating noise.
08-08-2015, 03:32 PM
#7
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So I took others advice and drained about 4 quarts out of the motor, and replaced it with mobil 1 5w-30. With the boat home, I ran it on the hose last night and this morning finally got some oil to come out of the rockers. Over all, I dribbled them with oil about three times before I saw it oozing out of the pushrod holes. Definately didn't come out fast, but it did come out. And when I revved the motor up to 2k rpm, I did see oil droplets spray about 18" in each direction. So I suspect it will get better, but everything will also get coated with oil when running.
The motors have SBC HEI distributors in them. Both motors have the same distributors. Both motors have the same roller tip rockers. Same setup on both. The other motor is a +0.040 while this one is a stock bore 350.
They both run pretty nice now, idle right down. Need to set the timing on the starboard motor again and re-check the port motor. My knock sensors seem to indicate the starboard is still too far advanced, but I have only idled it so far. That and it idles a bit high without me having adjusted the idle screw, points to advanced timing if I remember correctly.
My restoration / rebuild / holy crap why oh why did I ever buy an old boat / thread is in the formula section. this topic starts on page 34 http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/f...272-ls-34.html
Thanks to the OSO family for all the help!
Brian
The motors have SBC HEI distributors in them. Both motors have the same distributors. Both motors have the same roller tip rockers. Same setup on both. The other motor is a +0.040 while this one is a stock bore 350.
They both run pretty nice now, idle right down. Need to set the timing on the starboard motor again and re-check the port motor. My knock sensors seem to indicate the starboard is still too far advanced, but I have only idled it so far. That and it idles a bit high without me having adjusted the idle screw, points to advanced timing if I remember correctly.
My restoration / rebuild / holy crap why oh why did I ever buy an old boat / thread is in the formula section. this topic starts on page 34 http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/f...272-ls-34.html
Thanks to the OSO family for all the help!
Brian
