Off the shelf cam options for marine engines
02-15-2016, 12:44 PM
#181
Geronimo36
Gold Member
I was happy with bolt the shelf and custom cams...I got tired of lashing valves every year.
02-15-2016, 12:47 PM
#182
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I had a buddy suffer from breaking morel lifter tie bars with a marine kinetics camshaft also. I belive it was blamed on morels quality.
Johnson lifters. Any input on them? Supposedly bob did a highly scientific test where the johnson lifters outperformed the morels, hence why he supposedly sells the johnsons now.
Johnson lifters. Any input on them? Supposedly bob did a highly scientific test where the johnson lifters outperformed the morels, hence why he supposedly sells the johnsons now.
Morels require GM's lifter to bore tolerance to function correctly. That tolerance is .0015 to .0018". Over or under this number there can be issues. This is the clearance that allows the Morel to function correctly.
Oil viscosity. Morel does not like anything heavier than a 15W40. The std in the marine world is a 20W50. The Morels don't function well with this oil. We are testing some oil from Shafer in a .903" hyd roller build in the next few weeks. We have been recommending the Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W40 oil.
The huge advantage Morel has over most is the available .750" wheel. You have a greater load bearing area with the larger wheel. This and the live axle. Morel has taken technology developed with NASCAR and implemented it in their other lifters. The live axle spins in the bore and is held with a wire loc retaining system. When the roller hits the lobe it stops spinning. This allows the axle to constantly change the load area giving the lifter greater endurance. A swedge axle never moves and is loaded in the same area every time.
02-15-2016, 12:51 PM
#183
Registered
Platinum Member
In offshore application, the peak torque and peak HP should be around 1000 to 1400 rpm from peak to peak. For your 6000 rpm limit, I would want to see peak torque around 4600 to 5000 rpm. I would also like the peak numbers around 100 in difference. Meaning if you make 700HP then torque should be no less than 600. Ideally you want the number as close to each other numerically as you can get it. If you achieve this the acceleration will be off the hook. The torque number at Peak HP rpm number should be around 7% of the max torque number. An engine that does this will not only accelerate the hull out of the water but will run out to peak HP rpm and not hit a wall.
02-15-2016, 01:01 PM
#185
Registered
I had a buddy suffer from breaking morel lifter tie bars with a marine kinetics camshaft also. I belive it was blamed on morels quality.
Johnson lifters. Any input on them? Supposedly bob did a highly scientific test where the johnson lifters outperformed the morels, hence why he supposedly sells the johnsons now.
Johnson lifters. Any input on them? Supposedly bob did a highly scientific test where the johnson lifters outperformed the morels, hence why he supposedly sells the johnsons now.
http://www.iskycams.com/downloads/ISKY-HPxSeriese.pdf
Teague now uses Johnson Lifters:
http://teaguecustommarine.com/em0011...r-lifters.html
Crower too:
http://www.crower.com/lifters/roller...c.html?cat=427
Johnson Lifters list of distributors from their website:
http://johnsonlifters.com/Distributors.aspx
The Per-Fit Corporation 728 S Division Ave, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 49503 http://www.enginepro.com/ (616) 247-6572
Marine Kinetics 114 Woodrow Ave, Rochester, NY, 14609 http://www.marinekineticsonline.com/ (585) 654-8583
Brian Tooley Racing111 Lakeshore Dr., Bardstown, KY, 40004 http://www.briantooleyracing.com/ (888) 959-8865
Cam Motion 2157 Beaumont Drive, Baton Rouge, LA, 70806 http://www.cammotion.com/ (866) 461-9536
Crower Cams & Equipment 6180 Business Center Court, San Diego, CA, 92154 http://www.crower.com/ (619) 661-6477
Precision Racing 1404 Charlotte Rd, North Vancouver, BC, V7J 1H2 http://www.precisionracingengines.com (604) 985-6721
Teague Custom Marine 28115 Avenue Stanford, Valencia, CA, 91355 http://teaguecustommarine.com/ (661) 295-7000
Isky Racing Cams 16020 S. Broadway, Gardena, CA, 90248 http://www.iskycams.com/ (323) 770-0930
Mamo Motorsports 28415 West Industry Dr, Valencia, CA, 91355 http://www.mamomotorsports.com/ (661) 714-1317
Last edited by SB; 02-15-2016 at 01:04 PM.
02-15-2016, 01:09 PM
#187
Registered
I was kinda getting ready to yank the motor and go with a custom cam as I hate the feeling of leaving something on the table, but this thread has been very enlightening. It's not that a custom would do me well, but I'll stick with the ZZ502 unit that I've got until I'm ready for a full tear down.
I know of many guys, who back in the day, had the merc 454 420hp packages. This was a flat tappet engine, with a mild performance crane flat tappet. I know of a bunch of these guys who got sucked into custom hyd roller cams, since in todays world, if its not a roller cam, it belongs in a minivan. Anyhow, they bought two sets of lifters for 1,200 plus dollars. They bought two custom billet roller camshafts, another 1,000 dollars. New pushrods, and few other goodies. Some had to pay a shop to pull engines to be able to do the swap. All because their cam guy assured them how antiquated their stock cams were, how superior the roller setup is, and so on. So, they had 3k plus dollars in swapping out cams. You know what these guys averaged for speed gains from a cam change? 1-2mph!!!
For 3k dollars, those guys could have left the engines stock, bolted on a pair of used 250 blowers, and enjoyed speed increases in excess of 10mph, as that has been proven performing combo for years.
Am i saying you cant see a gain from better designed cam, not at all. But be careful what you read on the internet. This "i gained this, and i gained that" speculation based on the boats performance, without hard dyno data, can be misleading. The entire purpose to dyno test is to capture data, and use that data. Increasing or decreasing power, whether its from a degree of timing , or swapping a cam, or carb, is all capturing data. Most guys change ONE thing at a time between dyno sweeps. Doing a cam and carb swap at one time, and finding 30hp is great. But going on the internet and saying the cam change got you 30hp, is a bit skewed.
02-15-2016, 01:14 PM
#188
Registered
Isky now uses Johnson lifters:
http://www.iskycams.com/downloads/ISKY-HPxSeriese.pdf
Teague now uses Johnson Lifters:
http://teaguecustommarine.com/em0011...r-lifters.html
Crower too:
http://www.crower.com/lifters/roller...c.html?cat=427
Johnson Lifters list of distributors from their website:
http://johnsonlifters.com/Distributors.aspx
http://www.iskycams.com/downloads/ISKY-HPxSeriese.pdf
Teague now uses Johnson Lifters:
http://teaguecustommarine.com/em0011...r-lifters.html
Crower too:
http://www.crower.com/lifters/roller...c.html?cat=427
Johnson Lifters list of distributors from their website:
http://johnsonlifters.com/Distributors.aspx
02-15-2016, 01:25 PM
#189
Registered
this may be a little off topic but i believe johnson makes the lifters that get installed in the gm ls supercharged corvette engine.can anyone confirm that,maybe scott.[horsepower1].
02-15-2016, 01:38 PM
#190
Geronimo36
Gold Member
My friend used the Johnson's for his builds last winter. Everything seemed to work good once we got the bugs worked out. A few of the lifters refused to pump up upon start-up and would not release. We had to adjust them on the engine while it was running to get them to pump up properly. Once that issue was solved they seemed to run just fine.
I'm running the Morel 5045. Seem to be good so far!
