Off the shelf cam options for marine engines
#341
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We are all going to get fat and need new cams if we keep craving pizza!
Back to the SHELF CAM options this thread is about
We can start another thread in the beware section if Bob feels up to it
Back to the SHELF CAM options this thread is about
We can start another thread in the beware section if Bob feels up to it
#342
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#343
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i guess i am confused,to me it,s hard to tell what this thread is about.it has gone in many directions.as far as a beware thread about bob that might be a better place to discuss complaints.
#344
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Just thought I'd share some info on a line of hydraulic roller cams that work very well for marine engines. In this day and age, there are no big secrets to building BBC marine engines. No secret oil pans, magic cylinder heads, or special cams that are going to set the world on fire. You can find out everything you need by reading, and asking people who know what they're talking about. If someone won't give you an answer, it probably means they don't know. Anyway, back to cams. Going back a few years, I was having lots of valve train related issues from using custom cams. Needing to use fancy $800 lifters for a fairly basic engine, breaking rockers, all the Morel lifter failures, etc. I had a few take out zz502 cams on the shelf, so I swapped one in on a low rpm jet boat deal in place of the custom cam that was causing lifter issues. I figured it had to have a pretty stable lobe because it could run so much less spring pressure, and I was willing to give up some power from the greatly reduced lift. Surprise, it made more torque, and seven more hp. The next couple builds I tried an off the shelf Erson, it made very respectable power, but closed the valves a little harder then I was comfortable with, so the search continued. I had a customer who had purchased some custom cams for himself, and was on his second set of lifters, had multiple broken snap rings on his rockers, one trunion broken in half, and had damaged a valve stem from the lifter bleeding down at higher rpm, this was after about 25 or 30 hours. I had had excellent results with Lunati solid rollers in the past, so I picked up their catalog to check out their hyd rollers. I chose a cam with almost identical duration as the custom cam, but opened the exhaust valve just a little later, and a fair bit less lift. That probably will give up a bit of power on a computer simulator, but in reality, especially in a blown application it can help parts stay alive. We dyno'd the engine with the custom cam, and experimented a bit to see what was going on with the lifters. We pulled the cam on the dyno, and swapped in the Lunati. It made 90hp more, egts were better, it idled cleaner, lifters were quiet, etc. Same day, same dyno, same lifters. It confirmed a lot of my suspicions. On the second motor we tried some Johnson lifters in place of the Morels. They worked well, but gave up a few hundred rpm earlier then the Morels did. I'm currently running one set of morels and one set of Johnsons in the same boat to do some long term testing, and use both regularly as I've never had another Morel lifter failure since I switched to using off the shelf cams. Every Lunati cam that I have used, and other builders too, has made more power then the custom cam it was replacing, and improved performance in the boat. So.., long winded way of recommending Lunati EFI Compatible Cams. They're available in genVI, and retro, and work well for NA or low boost blown deals, carb and efi. No reversion issues. I've used almost every cam in that series and they all work great. If you want something bigger, or something custom, the Lunati Voodoo marine lobes are killer. I could right a novel about the amount of time I've spent screwing around on the dyno with custom cam issues, having to switch to solid lifters, changing springs, etc. Suffice it to say, talk to several reputable builders when you're doing your homework for your next build. When I get time I'll try and post some builds with dyno sheets and specs in case it will help any one in the future.
Custom cams are not always magical
Shelf cams can and do work great
Here's some options that work great
#345
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I've got on for ya'll ?
MANY run the Crane "741" cam with good results. Some run the Crane "651" cam. (with dry exhaust)
Why doesn't anyone ever run the Crane 771 ?
Part Number: 168771 Grind Number: HR-240/365-2S-14 IG
1996 Up CHEVROLET 8 Good mid range & upper RPM HP, rough idle, performance usage, bracket racing, manifold nitrous system, auto trans w/3500+ converter, marine performance for 540+ engines, 3800- 4200 cruise RPM, 10.5 to 12.5 compression ratio advised. Good w/supercharge
Engine Size Configuration
454-502 C.I. V
Lift: Intake @Cam 365 @Valve 621
Exhaust @ Cam 372 @Valve 632
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.70
Cam Timing: TAPPET @ .004
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 38.0 BTDC 84.0 ABDC 302.0 °
Exhaust 90.0 BBDC 40.0 ATDC 310.0 °
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 2600
Maximum RPM 6200
Valve Float 6800
Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Opens Closes Duration
Intake 11.0 BTDC 49.0 ABDC 240.0
Exhaust 63.0 BBDC 5.0 ATDC 248.0
MANY run the Crane "741" cam with good results. Some run the Crane "651" cam. (with dry exhaust)
Why doesn't anyone ever run the Crane 771 ?
Part Number: 168771 Grind Number: HR-240/365-2S-14 IG
1996 Up CHEVROLET 8 Good mid range & upper RPM HP, rough idle, performance usage, bracket racing, manifold nitrous system, auto trans w/3500+ converter, marine performance for 540+ engines, 3800- 4200 cruise RPM, 10.5 to 12.5 compression ratio advised. Good w/supercharge
Engine Size Configuration
454-502 C.I. V
Lift: Intake @Cam 365 @Valve 621
Exhaust @ Cam 372 @Valve 632
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.70
Cam Timing: TAPPET @ .004
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 38.0 BTDC 84.0 ABDC 302.0 °
Exhaust 90.0 BBDC 40.0 ATDC 310.0 °
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 2600
Maximum RPM 6200
Valve Float 6800
Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Opens Closes Duration
Intake 11.0 BTDC 49.0 ABDC 240.0
Exhaust 63.0 BBDC 5.0 ATDC 248.0
#348
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all this cam talk is giving me a headache.i think i will go start my 2 cycle weed wacker.
#349
Registered
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I've got on for ya'll ?
MANY run the Crane "741" cam with good results. Some run the Crane "651" cam. (with dry exhaust)
Why doesn't anyone ever run the Crane 771 ?
Part Number: 168771 Grind Number: HR-240/365-2S-14 IG
1996 Up CHEVROLET 8 Good mid range & upper RPM HP, rough idle, performance usage, bracket racing, manifold nitrous system, auto trans w/3500+ converter, marine performance for 540+ engines, 3800- 4200 cruise RPM, 10.5 to 12.5 compression ratio advised. Good w/supercharge
Engine Size Configuration
454-502 C.I. V
Lift: Intake @Cam 365 @Valve 621
Exhaust @ Cam 372 @Valve 632
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.70
Cam Timing: TAPPET @ .004
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 38.0 BTDC 84.0 ABDC 302.0 °
Exhaust 90.0 BBDC 40.0 ATDC 310.0 °
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 2600
Maximum RPM 6200
Valve Float 6800
Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Opens Closes Duration
Intake 11.0 BTDC 49.0 ABDC 240.0
Exhaust 63.0 BBDC 5.0 ATDC 248.0
MANY run the Crane "741" cam with good results. Some run the Crane "651" cam. (with dry exhaust)
Why doesn't anyone ever run the Crane 771 ?
Part Number: 168771 Grind Number: HR-240/365-2S-14 IG
1996 Up CHEVROLET 8 Good mid range & upper RPM HP, rough idle, performance usage, bracket racing, manifold nitrous system, auto trans w/3500+ converter, marine performance for 540+ engines, 3800- 4200 cruise RPM, 10.5 to 12.5 compression ratio advised. Good w/supercharge
Engine Size Configuration
454-502 C.I. V
Lift: Intake @Cam 365 @Valve 621
Exhaust @ Cam 372 @Valve 632
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.70
Cam Timing: TAPPET @ .004
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 38.0 BTDC 84.0 ABDC 302.0 °
Exhaust 90.0 BBDC 40.0 ATDC 310.0 °
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 2600
Maximum RPM 6200
Valve Float 6800
Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Opens Closes Duration
Intake 11.0 BTDC 49.0 ABDC 240.0
Exhaust 63.0 BBDC 5.0 ATDC 248.0
#350
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Custom/Shelf....whichever. You need to cam for the CID/RPM and the heads being used. General rule of thumb, if the I/E ratio is 75% then the duration at .050" tappet will be the same. So if you had a 502 with a set of AFR305 heads and you want 5800 rpm you would look for or have ground a cam that was the same duration on both intake and exhaust at .050".
If you had a 502 with a set of Brodix BB1 and you want 5800 rpm you would look for or have ground a cam that has a duration split at .050" around 7 to 8 degrees.
If you had a 502 with a set of Brodix Race Rites and you want 5800 rpm you would look for or have ground a cam that has a duration split at .050" around 12 to 14 degrees.
If you had a 502 with a set of Brodix BB1 and you want 5800 rpm you would look for or have ground a cam that has a duration split at .050" around 7 to 8 degrees.
If you had a 502 with a set of Brodix Race Rites and you want 5800 rpm you would look for or have ground a cam that has a duration split at .050" around 12 to 14 degrees.