Cam and valvetrain longevity....??? low duration high lift...
11-25-2016, 06:07 AM
#1661
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
"Titanium is the lightest option when you are looking for valve spring retainers, but it is a softer metal than steel so it can gall up over time. This can especially happen where the retainer contacts the steel valve locks. Titanium has good shear strength, so it can hold up to a strong valve spring, but because it is softer it can gall up and cause problems.
“Tool steel retainers are a good option,” he continues. “In fact, they are probably my favorite option."
http://www.powerperformancenews.com/...le-valvetrain/
11-25-2016, 06:19 AM
#1662
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
"Besides the tendency to gall in the areas where titanium mates against steel, Bechtloff also cautions that titanium retainers should not be used with a very specific type of spring. “If you have a double nested valve spring with a damper coil in between them, that damper coil is a flat wire wound vertically. That creates an edge that can chew into the titanium retainer and cause it to fail over time. Titanium retainers and valve springs that use a damper really aren’t compatible.”
11-25-2016, 07:02 AM
#1663
Registered
On the subject of retainers, every time i freshened my 540 the ti retainers had damage from dampners or inner springd cutting into them and i changed them, last time i freshened it i went with the ulra light hd steel alloy versions. Luckily the metal it shed never made it past the filter and ate up the bearings or crank but i did NOT want to open it up to refreshen and find where metal did eat something up, my local machinist told me i was a idiot to ever run ti retainers with ANY double spring with a dampner against a ti retainer as it ALWAYS cuts them and if ran long enough i would have a retainer self destruct and we all know what happens when you drop a valve, fwiw, Smitty
What I found, was the machine shop who assembled my stuff, was using the incorrect size hardware. If you have say, a .740 ID inner spring, you don't want to use a locator, that has a shoulder diameter of .680. Same goes for the retainers. The stuff has to be a fairly tight fit. Might work fine for a car, that doesn't see constant high rpm, but in a boat, the springs will move around if you let them. Plus, they also set the springs up , about .260 away from coil bind. They got the pressures right, but the spring was simply the wrong spring for the application. So, what you have, is a spring that is way too tall, and hardware thats a loose fit, and the springs are walking around eating chit up.
When you page thru catalogs from comp, crane, manley, lunati, howards, isky, there's tons of different measurments of locators/cups/retainers, plus all the various spring packages out there. I just went thru helping a buddy order all that stuff for his heads, if you want a really nice fit, sometimes you have to mix and match brands to get there.
Most of all the spring catalogs I have here, do show Ti retainers as an option on their dual spring with damper springs. I've never ran titanium retainers, but I have a couple friends who have. I don't know if they've ever had wear issues though.
11-25-2016, 07:26 AM
#1664
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
I had similar issues, but with the steel retainers and locators. The springs were digging into the steel. I would have very fine metal shavings, sitting in the pockets of the heads where the oil pools. It had me scratching my head until I started investigating.
What I found, was the machine shop who assembled my stuff, was using the incorrect size hardware. If you have say, a .740 ID inner spring, you don't want to use a locator, that has a shoulder diameter of .680. Same goes for the retainers. The stuff has to be a fairly tight fit. Might work fine for a car, that doesn't see constant high rpm, but in a boat, the springs will move around if you let them. Plus, they also set the springs up , about .260 away from coil bind. They got the pressures right, but the spring was simply the wrong spring for the application. So, what you have, is a spring that is way too tall, and hardware thats a loose fit, and the springs are walking around eating chit up.
When you page thru catalogs from comp, crane, manley, lunati, howards, isky, there's tons of different measurments of locators/cups/retainers, plus all the various spring packages out there. I just went thru helping a buddy order all that stuff for his heads, if you want a really nice fit, sometimes you have to mix and match brands to get there.
Most of all the spring catalogs I have here, do show Ti retainers as an option on their dual spring with damper springs. I've never ran titanium retainers, but I have a couple friends who have. I don't know if they've ever had wear issues though.
What I found, was the machine shop who assembled my stuff, was using the incorrect size hardware. If you have say, a .740 ID inner spring, you don't want to use a locator, that has a shoulder diameter of .680. Same goes for the retainers. The stuff has to be a fairly tight fit. Might work fine for a car, that doesn't see constant high rpm, but in a boat, the springs will move around if you let them. Plus, they also set the springs up , about .260 away from coil bind. They got the pressures right, but the spring was simply the wrong spring for the application. So, what you have, is a spring that is way too tall, and hardware thats a loose fit, and the springs are walking around eating chit up.
When you page thru catalogs from comp, crane, manley, lunati, howards, isky, there's tons of different measurments of locators/cups/retainers, plus all the various spring packages out there. I just went thru helping a buddy order all that stuff for his heads, if you want a really nice fit, sometimes you have to mix and match brands to get there.
Most of all the spring catalogs I have here, do show Ti retainers as an option on their dual spring with damper springs. I've never ran titanium retainers, but I have a couple friends who have. I don't know if they've ever had wear issues though.
Your not prob old enough to remember but in the 70s there was alot of trick of the week hot rod parts, aluminum valve spring retainers was one of them, imagine that crap!! With all that metal going thru the oil no wonder they had to pin rod bearings!!
Last edited by articfriends; 11-25-2016 at 07:31 AM.
11-25-2016, 08:56 AM
#1667
Gold Member
Gold Member
I sold my TI retainers and now have tool steel.
The guy who helps me with my stuff maintains a midget car program. I was there the other day and he was showing me some Ti retainers that were like razor blades on the edges due to wear. They switched to tool steel in that application.
On a side note, I sold my TI intake valves as we'll. I'm not running a maximum effort engine and the reliability was more important than making max power
The guy who helps me with my stuff maintains a midget car program. I was there the other day and he was showing me some Ti retainers that were like razor blades on the edges due to wear. They switched to tool steel in that application.
On a side note, I sold my TI intake valves as we'll. I'm not running a maximum effort engine and the reliability was more important than making max power
11-25-2016, 06:28 PM
#1668
Registered
This is a good read if you want to familiarize yourself on conical springs.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...ind-the-coils/
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...ind-the-coils/
11-25-2016, 10:21 PM
#1669
Registered
All those years of experience and knowledge you can't go wrong. ... and the price don't even get me started I bet you could get at least a nother 10% or more off.just ask the guy at the game and phone counter for the discount and witch ones would be better for your motors. He sould know
11-28-2016, 10:41 AM
#1670
Registered
Are bobs cams designed for a .700 lifter wheel, a .750 lifter wheel, or what? Does anyone know the answer to that? Or has that ever been a question? While a minute change, the lifter wheel diameter, does play a role in the actual cam timing. Not a ton, but, I mean we are talking about super secret squirrel custom cams, I would think that would be a consideration. The johnson lifter has a .700 wheel, morels, PBM, lunati, howards, upper end hyd rollers use a .750 wheel.
