formula31

Man, learned something new again today. Thanks

Turbojack

What is the difference in the rear main seals? I though you wanted it installed facing the rear main. Or are you saying there are grooves on the seal that rides on the crank that throws the oil back in, instead of pulling it out (like a screw)

paradigm shift

I think they are talking about difference in rotation of motor. Clockwise or counter clockwise. CW or CCW use a different seal. There are screw type grooves as you say to channel or pull the oil back in to the motor. As to how much this had to do with this bearing failure I guess is a matter of opinion. FindMe has some great information. I have seen bearings set up like he notes before. I had a rear main tight until assembled exacly like FindMe noted.

I wish I new exactly what all the clearances were at assembly including thrust. Crank runout is it straight. Eagles have to run extra radiused clearance on the bearings but if it ran 15hrs hard to say. I really would like to know rear main clearance. Was it .0035 or less? With as much heat as I see I would deffinently line bore the block. Just my .02.

Elite Marine

Thank you very much for the most in depth explaination I could ask for. I believe that the highlights your reply are the most logical contributions to this type of failure. The engine is in the shop having the bearing bore checked. We will try to measure the main journal diameter to see if there was a clearance problem. I think a good line bore and matched crank and bearings will solve the problem, oh and the correect seal!!!

The engine builder says he has installed this seal in numerous engines, he didn't realize it was a reverse rotation seal!!!!

Its a shame that there a companies out there taking peoples money and claiming to be professionals, yet they do not know the basics such as this. I shouldn't have to tell the builder that the seal is incorrect.

So far he says he's willing to work with me to repair it, he just seems to have lost my phone number. I left several messages and emailed them my home, work and cell numbers...to date, no reply.

Thanks again Find-Me

Kirk

FindMe

Well, all I can tell ya is the rear main seal has angled grooves in it to direct oil in a certain direction under load, and since the rear brg thrust style crankshaft is well known for being weak and poorly lubricated, I think directing oil away from it in any capacity is suiside. Now, put the hammer down, and think about the splash or "directing" of the oil @ 4800 RPM with the bow of the boat in the air (rear main seal at lowest point) with oil being forced AWAY from the thrust main, instead of towards it and it ain't too hard to understand (in theory of course)... The rear cam bearing placement or rotation plays a role in oiling the last main as well (or how fast it can bleed off to the least restrictive point of escape). Im surprised you guys have never heard of "Pro-Blend"... it was designed by Funny Car driver Brad Anderson, and actually draws oil TO a hot spot, whereas usually it will move away. I watched him do a full 1/4 mile pass with a treated alcohol funny car motor without a oil pump belt, and it had NO oil related failures at the end of the run (brgs hammered from no cusion of oil, but nothing looking like your rear main brg, obviously cooked from extreme heat. PLUS, oil not only lubricated engine parts, but it cools them too.... Wala the oil cooler was invented and loved by all. Here is a half assed pic of oil moving away from a hot spot, and the resulting added failure area... I don't know how much the rear main seal plays into this, but if Clevite and all the other major brg manufacturers supply the information I posted, I'm inclined to believe it, plus the fact that the worst & most burnt part of your bearing is facing the rear main seal ain't it? I hope you get this one 1st try, good luck! I didn't invent the wheel.... Im just Rollin with it!

One last question?? Is that an adapter to make a 1 piece rear main motor, a 2 piece rear main, or am I seein She-it ? Almost looks like the cap was loose... or a very nasty mating surface? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm???

Elite Marine

I believe the main seal adapter is furnished with the crank kit from Eagle. The engine is an original 1998 7.4L, the crank is for a 502 I believe. I plan on installing a real crank like Lunati or Scat this time. Iv've heard nothing but horror stories about Eagle and the lack of tolerances and finish.

Kirk

FindMe

Not to be a wise ass...., but don't ya think a "real rear main seal" would be appropriate? My bet is, you could put "real cranks" in all day with the seal backwards and have lots of trophies, instead of just one...lol
Sorry, but I just had to... my badd.. ~grin~

I read somewhere today, that Eagle cranks are good stuff if installed properly, with chamfering blueprinted (matching components). And the tolerances and finish issues if so, would get the builders ass kicked if they failed to properly check and record the clearances during assembly, or tell you to take the slug someplace to get polished or shove it cause they ain't puttin it in like that...... I have tested a few attitudes with that one, but every last one avoided major failures and the joy of having the little woman chewing around the seat of your pants, and letting your ass fall out.... (humor) but not funny.........

jpclear

Well Warlock, you really ARE a wise-ass but I also really like your knowledge AND style. --- Jer

mopower

My engine builder has used Eagle cranks for years with very little problems since his first problem with a Ford 347 stroker. Had a MAJOR oil leak from the rear main. Come to find out the seal surface was out of round . Also has found some finishes not as nice as he would like so he polished them. But like Findme says , you have to check Eagles very carefully end to end.

Elite Marine

What is the opinion of the board on this situation?

I purchased the boat with the motor in late August. The motor was represented as a fresh professional rebuild with approximately 10 hours. Within a week of owning the boat I noticed oil in the bilge. Upon noticing the location of the oil source, a mechanic recommended pulling the engine for inspection. We unfortunately found the bad rear main bearing.

The original builder does not believe that the reverse rotation seal could have caused the failure. I now am faced with buying a new block and all the associated machining, parts and assembly associated. This will cost several thousand dollars. What recourse if any do I have? I have documentation on the whole situation with dates and of course dated work tickets from the mechanic.