Dart Pro 1 head thickness (FYI)
12-13-2002, 07:41 PM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
MARK AS YOU KNOW I'VE DONE TONS OF BRODIX AND WE'VE LATELY DONE 2 SETS OF 335 AIR-FLOWS AND THE NUMBERS ON THE EXHAUST ARE TRULY UNREAL THIS IS THE FIRST DIFFERENCE
IN HEADS AS UNTIL NOW I THINK MOST WERE INTERESTED IN
INTAKE NUMBERS AS JDNCA SAID MOST ARE CLOSE TO EACH OTHER .
PONTIAC HEADS STILL RULE TRUE !!!
CNC HEADS COME NOT TO BE MODIFIED ANYMORE THE THICKNESS IS FOR STRENGHT AND REGIDITY !!
THERE AS I'VE SAID ABOVE THEIR IS ALOT OF DIFFERENCE ,JUST PICK UP SOME DIFFERENT HEADS
1 CENT WORTH
MARK THE TOP HEAD COMPANYS HEADS ARE VERY CLOSE TO WHAT THEY ADV. ,,REALLY ,BUT ITS THE WHOLE PACKAGE YOU'VE GOT TO USE THE FLOW THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART SEE YA
IN HEADS AS UNTIL NOW I THINK MOST WERE INTERESTED IN
INTAKE NUMBERS AS JDNCA SAID MOST ARE CLOSE TO EACH OTHER .
PONTIAC HEADS STILL RULE TRUE !!!
CNC HEADS COME NOT TO BE MODIFIED ANYMORE THE THICKNESS IS FOR STRENGHT AND REGIDITY !!
THERE AS I'VE SAID ABOVE THEIR IS ALOT OF DIFFERENCE ,JUST PICK UP SOME DIFFERENT HEADS
1 CENT WORTH
MARK THE TOP HEAD COMPANYS HEADS ARE VERY CLOSE TO WHAT THEY ADV. ,,REALLY ,BUT ITS THE WHOLE PACKAGE YOU'VE GOT TO USE THE FLOW THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART SEE YA
12-13-2002, 08:37 PM
#13
Charter Member # 545
Gold Member
KAAMA..Chevy High Performance mag did a comparison on 16 different cylinder heads. The AFR 315 cc out flowed alot of major head makers. The comparison was done about a year ago. It is available at www.chevyhiperformance.com makes for some interesting reading. Am in the same boat as everyone else. Going to Aluminium heads and asking the same questions. 540 ci with whipples, AFR suggested using the 315 cc intake runner. Dustin says go with Dart 335. Dustin knows his product for sure and has tested this combination. Not questioning his opinion just asking questions.
12-13-2002, 10:20 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
BEAK BOATER DUSTIN HAS TESTED THE DARTS AND IT MAY BE A VENDOR OR SPECIAL SUPPLIIER TO HIM ! THE AIR FLOW 315 AS YOU SAID IS A KILLER HEAD ITS EXHAUST NUMBERS BLOW AWAY
THE DARTS AND IS A MUCH STRONGER HEAD THE 335 AFR ARE THE ONES I 'VE RUN ON 540'S WITH WHIPPLES 3.0 LITERS AND 10 TO 14 71'S THEY WILL DISTROY THE DARTS AND LIVE FOR EVER.
THE BLOWER WILL HANDLE AND DOES BETTER WITH SLIGHTLY SMALLER INTAKES BUT THE EXHAUST NEEDS CAM DURATION AND GREAT FLOW ALL THE WAY OUT THE PIPES ,ITS BEEN PROVEN OVER AND OVER AT LAKES ALL OVER ,
JUST WATCH WHAT MAN. TELL YOU THEY MAY HAVE HIDDEN ADJENTAS
DUSTIN I SAY AGAIN IS GOOD THOUGH
LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED ANY HEADS ,JUST PM ME THANKS
MY 2 CENTS WORTH
THE DARTS AND IS A MUCH STRONGER HEAD THE 335 AFR ARE THE ONES I 'VE RUN ON 540'S WITH WHIPPLES 3.0 LITERS AND 10 TO 14 71'S THEY WILL DISTROY THE DARTS AND LIVE FOR EVER.
THE BLOWER WILL HANDLE AND DOES BETTER WITH SLIGHTLY SMALLER INTAKES BUT THE EXHAUST NEEDS CAM DURATION AND GREAT FLOW ALL THE WAY OUT THE PIPES ,ITS BEEN PROVEN OVER AND OVER AT LAKES ALL OVER ,
JUST WATCH WHAT MAN. TELL YOU THEY MAY HAVE HIDDEN ADJENTAS
DUSTIN I SAY AGAIN IS GOOD THOUGH
LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED ANY HEADS ,JUST PM ME THANKS
MY 2 CENTS WORTH
Last edited by bobby daniels; 12-13-2002 at 10:24 PM.
12-14-2002, 12:13 AM
#15
Registered
KAAMA, I spoke with a rep in the Dart booth last weekend at the PRI show and he claimed the 335 or 355 CNC heads would be worth 50 to 70 more HP over my fully ported 325's on my 13:1 comp 496. He also said the Dart 320's would need to be fully ported to match the flow of the 325 Pro 1 heads in "out of the box" form. I have been reading some of your posts and thought you may be interested in that info. Personally I think he was trying to be a better salesman than he really was. We stopped at the Sonnys booth and this salesman (very knowledgeable) made claims that JDNCA1 would pick up 100 to 150 HP by going to Pontiac heads on his dyno confirmed 900 HP pump gas naturally aspirated 632. The total cost for that upgrade would be in the $9000 to $10,000 range. 
To bad these HP claims by salesmen aren't backed by a money back guarantee.
If they did I would buy some 335 Pro 1's tomorrow!!
We stopped at the Sonnys booth and this salesman (very knowledgeable) made claims that JDNCA1 would pick up 100 to 150 HP by going to Pontiac heads on his dyno confirmed 900 HP pump gas naturally aspirated 632. The total cost for that upgrade would be in the $9000 to $10,000 range. To bad these HP claims by salesmen aren't backed by a money back guarantee. If they did I would buy some 335 Pro 1's tomorrow!!
12-14-2002, 12:54 AM
#16
Registered
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lake St. Clair
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question.......not to change the topic, but lately, I have seen the new Canfield Big Block Chevy 350 cc heads being mentioned quite a bit in a lot of hot rod, and drag racing articles. Has anyone had any expereince with these yet ?
Canfield has always advertised some pretty big flow numbers in the past. I run 2 sets on my sbc's, and I have to admit, for an out of the box head, they really seemed to have a fairly smooth casting quality, consistent raddi in the runners, etc and everything looked nice (I know, looks aren't everything), but I was just wondering if anyone had any experience with the new 350 cc heads ?
Canfield has always advertised some pretty big flow numbers in the past. I run 2 sets on my sbc's, and I have to admit, for an out of the box head, they really seemed to have a fairly smooth casting quality, consistent raddi in the runners, etc and everything looked nice (I know, looks aren't everything), but I was just wondering if anyone had any experience with the new 350 cc heads ?
12-14-2002, 05:52 AM
#17
Registered
"HORSEPOWER HERE----COME GET YOUR HORSEPOWER HERE......"
You have to sometimes wonder when an engine builder or a business who sells horsepower parts uses a certain brand of head just because they get it cheaper from a supplier or from the factory. When the only real reason they buy these heads is because they get a good deal on them and for some reason they are buddies with a supplier or something and can buy them cheaper than other brands of heads-----NOT because they flow better than another brand or design of heads, but because they can make MORE MONEY on the heads. That's why I don't always take an engine builder's or parts saleman's word about a certain brand of head they use. Although this may not always be the case, I'm more apt to listen a little closer to an engine builder or horsepower salesman who (for exapmle) says something like this;----
"We use the Dart head for this application and we use the Broxdix for other certain types of applications and we like using the AFR heads for this supercharged application and here's why........"
OR---
"Until we find another brand makes more power, we only use "X Brand" because we have dyno'd it on several different applications and have compared it with all the other top brands of heads and here's why............"
When a person can tell me that he uses different heads for different apps, it tells me he's not "drinking buddies" (so to speak) with any one supplier or manufacturer. But rather he's constantly trying out and dynoing heads to see who's got the BADEST HEAD for a certain type of application. In other words he's looking to give his customers the best product for the application he needs it for---not just the salesman's pocket book. I know it's impossible to try every head and combination, but they can still take some of the top competing head manufactures and dyno test them. Of course I am talking about heads that you take right out of the box from straight untouched castings to CNC ported heads with both of these types of designs only requiring maybe a slight bowl blending, but NO PORTING (such as on straight untouched castings) or any FURTHER PORTING (such as on factory ported heads CNC'd) so as to keep the costs to a minimum.
Any engine builder or someone who sells horsepower products has his own reasons as to why he uses what he uses. And for the average everyday guy who wants to go a little faster, those reasons may be good enough for him and he takes the seller at his word, and that's fine. But there are some of us who want to know a little more of the WHY's, WHEN's, WHAT FOR's and HOW COME's and all the other reasonings behind what the seller is saying to sell his product.
But as Jdnca1 has stated that they all probably flow within 5-10hp of each other. Anything less than that is probably trying to split hairs which can put my above arguements in vain.
As far as hand porting goes that is a totally different subject---someone who does hand porting as a profession is usually able to shape and design a port the way he wants---and even HE has his own reasons as to why he likes a certain brand of casting to accomplish this. However, in this post/arguement, I am talking more about the "out of the box" heads that are available and ready to pretty much bolt right on.
"We use the Dart head for this application and we use the Broxdix for other certain types of applications and we like using the AFR heads for this supercharged application and here's why........"
OR---
"Until we find another brand makes more power, we only use "X Brand" because we have dyno'd it on several different applications and have compared it with all the other top brands of heads and here's why............"
When a person can tell me that he uses different heads for different apps, it tells me he's not "drinking buddies" (so to speak) with any one supplier or manufacturer. But rather he's constantly trying out and dynoing heads to see who's got the BADEST HEAD for a certain type of application. In other words he's looking to give his customers the best product for the application he needs it for---not just the salesman's pocket book. I know it's impossible to try every head and combination, but they can still take some of the top competing head manufactures and dyno test them. Of course I am talking about heads that you take right out of the box from straight untouched castings to CNC ported heads with both of these types of designs only requiring maybe a slight bowl blending, but NO PORTING (such as on straight untouched castings) or any FURTHER PORTING (such as on factory ported heads CNC'd) so as to keep the costs to a minimum.
Any engine builder or someone who sells horsepower products has his own reasons as to why he uses what he uses. And for the average everyday guy who wants to go a little faster, those reasons may be good enough for him and he takes the seller at his word, and that's fine. But there are some of us who want to know a little more of the WHY's, WHEN's, WHAT FOR's and HOW COME's and all the other reasonings behind what the seller is saying to sell his product.
But as Jdnca1 has stated that they all probably flow within 5-10hp of each other. Anything less than that is probably trying to split hairs which can put my above arguements in vain.
As far as hand porting goes that is a totally different subject---someone who does hand porting as a profession is usually able to shape and design a port the way he wants---and even HE has his own reasons as to why he likes a certain brand of casting to accomplish this. However, in this post/arguement, I am talking more about the "out of the box" heads that are available and ready to pretty much bolt right on.
Last edited by KAAMA; 12-14-2002 at 06:17 AM.
12-14-2002, 11:38 AM
#18
Registered
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: KY
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Those Pontiac heads had UNBELIEVABLE flow numbers.....close to 520cfm @.750 lift on the intake. Craig is right about the Sonnys rep, he didn't even hesitate on the 150HP increase claim by going to Pontiacs. I believe him because I've seen it in tests, problem is you need to change a lot to switch and stay on pump gas. The next motor might just have to be a 12.5:1 with a set of pontiacs on it. I think I could leave the flat tops in and just change heads and be close to that CR. Should be good for 1250+hp. I was just looking at some of the materials on those heads, 2.52" intake valves 80CC chambers
80CC chambers
12-14-2002, 01:05 PM
#19
Charter Member #40
Charter Member
I ran 14 degree big chiefs for three years. Great head, super flow and pretty good hp. They are not real "pleasure use" friendly. Valves are long (6.7"), I ran titantiums on intakes and an inconel exh.. Pushrods are almost 11" long. Due to the weight and the fact the heads like big lift and rpm spring pressures are higher than normal. Rocker arms need to be gone thru about every 100 hours. Lifters are offset, which promotes their wear rate. Combined with vavle train weight, spring pressures and side load, lifter life is compromised. Cam lobe seems to wear more agressively also. Heads are very tall, probably an inch or so more than the others, creates space problem on side by side installations. Bottom line, they make hp but are probably better suited to a race application. Recently sold mine and will be happy to try something different!
Last edited by Bob; 12-14-2002 at 01:07 PM.
12-14-2002, 05:51 PM
#20
Registered
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: KY
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for sharing your real world experience Bob. My big question has always been how hard do you have to turn it to see the benefits of those heads. I turn about 6500 Max natural and I'm not sure those heads really start working until at least that rpm and probably more like 7200+. To get the potential out of a 632 at 12.5:1 with big chiefs you would likly have to run a cam that was just too nasty to be compatabe with a Bravo. I'm @ 280/288 (running 2 degrees retarded) now and it wants more cam @10.5:1. Coupled with Dominators on a sheet metal intake I'm not sure anyone could make the motor idle (below 1400) with the 300+ durations that would likely be needed.
