bobby daniels

RIGHT BLUE THUNDER ,,,,RIGHT YOU'VE GOT WHAT I'M SAYING FIGURED OUT ,10 DEGREE WON'T BREAK ALL THE TIME BUT THEY DO AND WHY TAKE THE CHANCE

HAVE A GOOD ONE
BOBBY

blown1500

Hi KAAMA,
Mcollinstn and Checkmate454mag have the right ideas!
The 7* locks do grip the valve tighter, but their smaller diameter makes them more likely to pull through the retainer. Do you remember when aluminum retainers were popular? That was a real problem with them!!! 10* locks are larger in diameter therefore load more area on the retainer and are much harder to pull through. 7* Super Locks are the best of both but are very pricey.
I have never had much problem from any quality aftermarket part but if you run into valve float, you will get a problem. The 7* Supers are the least likely to fail. For most boat applications-less than 6500 rpm and less than .700" lift, you can design a valve train that does not require 7* Super Locks or titanium retainers. They are nice to talk about but an unnecessary expense.
Call me if you would lik to discuss this in person
Have a great day!

KAAMA

blown1500, Thanks for the advice---I appreciate the technical in depth response. But I always thought that ANYTIME that you can lighten up the valve train (especially over the valve where it really counts) that you can run lighter spring pressures, will reduce the chances for valve float, and/or any other problems and that it is beneficial no matter what the RPM level ?

blown1500

Hey KAAMA,
The lighter you can make things and retain sufficient strength, the better. Here, however, deminishing returns for money spent comes into play quickly. If you could design a valve train and make a special spring for each application, you would make gains in efficiency. Problem is, you only have so many choices unless money is no object. Most of our boat applications require a spring that is stronger than we absolutely must have and the steel retainer instead of titanium is usually just as good for less money-a lot less. The difference at the prop shaft, fuel pump, or wear on the engine parts is negligable in most instances. We always recommend on the safe side, but if the safe side can also be cheaper, that is what we recommend. If you want the last horsepower-YOU CAN'T BEAT CUBIC DOLLAR$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

blue thunder

Blown1500... I am curious why you say "Most of our boat applications require a spring that is stronger than we absolutely must have" . I am curious because I am installing heads on short blocks which have valve springs that are slightly lighter than recommended by the cam mfgr. 105# seat vs 115 recommended and 305 open vs 315 recommended. Is there a necessity in marine applications to over spring? I figured I was close enough for a 5000 rpm application. If not, I may need to do some shimming.

BT

blue thunder

That helps a lot Ambusher. My engine guy said the same thing. These are not new springs and I was planning to reuse. He checked them out for me and they are in great shape. They are not that old either, so I want to reuse. If I take what you said, 10-15# lost after use, which exactly matches what he said, and add it to my numbers. I have the right springs.

Thanks much,

BT

blown1500

Blue Thunder,
What I said about our springs beeing more than absolutely necessary refers to the manufacturer's recommended springs.
To be safe, do what they say!!!!! You may have lightweight componnents that would allow the use of softer springs at the max rpm you intend to run. If you loose any tension, you miscalculated mass, or if you overrev just a little you have disaster!!!! It is highly recommended you run some insurance-which the cam manufacturer has calculated for you. There are so many factors, ramp speed, rocker ratio, valve weight, the rest of the valve train weight, etc. you need a degree in physics AND a test bench with strobe to verify your theories.
KAAMA, if you check wiht the serious racers- Winston Cup, for instance, they run just enough valve spring, just heavy enough piston, rod, etc. etc. etc. But they have LOTS of time in engineering-almost all have at least one resident engineer-LOTS of time experimenting and deep pockets to bury the mistakes.
The rest of us must rely on the manufacturers and experience-just sneak up on the ultimate set up or you may have more parts than you started with

KAAMA

blown1500, Bobby Daniels, Ambusher,-----all you guys are from "NC"-----most would think this stands for "North Carolina" I think it stands more for "NASCAR Country"--------the land of engines! Thanks for your advice and all your input!

Mark/KAAMA