Freshen up
01-02-2003, 08:24 AM
#1
Platinum Member
Platinum MemberThread Starter
Freshen up
I have about 275 hours on my 454mags. I installed Whipples Superchargers when the motors had 245 hours on them. An engine guy told me that I should have the motors freshened up. He said it would cost me $3500.00 a motor. What should I expect him to do for that kind of money? I had to get back to the party before I could ask.
01-02-2003, 12:17 PM
#3
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It cost me $995.00 for boring a 454 block to .030, new pistons, rings, gaskets, line boring block, milling the heads & grinding valves & seats. Bought only quality parts. Another $1000 for the removal, reassembly & install. A "freshing" , honing, rings, valve job, seals & bearings..... labor the same @ $1000.00, parts drop to less than $500.00. The major difference in cost is the cylinder taper & if it needs to be bored... then new pistons. But then, my mechanic is a friend so it is a little cheaper for me (but the machinist is not!).
01-02-2003, 12:25 PM
#4
Platinum Member
Platinum MemberThread Starter
They never ran lean, if anything they were run too rich when setting up the Whipples. I always use 92+ octane fuel and the oil gets changed a couple times a year. I thought they should be able to go a little longer but the time to do it is coming. If I wait another season I will have it done just to upgrade some of the internals and peace of mind. I was just wondering what the normal freshening job consisted of.
01-02-2003, 12:43 PM
#5
Platinum Member
Platinum MemberThread Starter
blown formula
I need a friend like that but I don't mind paying a fair price for a good job. I think I need to get in writing what he has in mind. Your price was alot better than the one that I got, although he never said what he would do.
I need a friend like that but I don't mind paying a fair price for a good job. I think I need to get in writing what he has in mind. Your price was alot better than the one that I got, although he never said what he would do.
01-03-2003, 12:37 AM
#7
Registered
Quiet Storm/Roger,
Tell him you want a WRITTEN ESTIMATE of what is being done and what it costs for EACH and EVERY step of the machining process that is being done with YOUR specific engines. Basically this is called a "Labor Sheet" which breaks down each machining process and gives the cost of each machining process as well. It should NOT matter whether it's for a car or a boat! A machining process is a machining process PERIOD! The engine doesn't know whether it's going into a car or a boat! What it comes down to is how accurate the maching process is being done by the person who is doing the machining and HOW WELL it is assembled. It can be difficult to give an accurate estimate until the engine is completely dis-assembled and until that is done it's going to be hard to know if your will IN FACT need new pistons. And if you need new pistons that means the cylinders will need to be bored out as well which is an additional machining process. So things can add up in a hurry. Also, you may need new rod bolts, or the crank(s) may need turning, you may need new valves, a new cam/lifters OR you may NOT need some of these items----that's why when getting an estimate it should be broken down as to what the shop manager is basing his estimate on because you never know what he may have to add to the estimate once he gets the engine(s) apart. He may be assuming what you're going to be needing---and they usually have a pretty good idea, however until you actually get the engine(s) apart you won't always know exactally what the engine(s) will be needing for sure. You want to know EVERYTHING that particular $3500 is covering.
Let us know---I can basically tell you if he's in the ball park or not.
Mark/KAAMA
Tell him you want a WRITTEN ESTIMATE of what is being done and what it costs for EACH and EVERY step of the machining process that is being done with YOUR specific engines. Basically this is called a "Labor Sheet" which breaks down each machining process and gives the cost of each machining process as well. It should NOT matter whether it's for a car or a boat! A machining process is a machining process PERIOD! The engine doesn't know whether it's going into a car or a boat! What it comes down to is how accurate the maching process is being done by the person who is doing the machining and HOW WELL it is assembled. It can be difficult to give an accurate estimate until the engine is completely dis-assembled and until that is done it's going to be hard to know if your will IN FACT need new pistons. And if you need new pistons that means the cylinders will need to be bored out as well which is an additional machining process. So things can add up in a hurry. Also, you may need new rod bolts, or the crank(s) may need turning, you may need new valves, a new cam/lifters OR you may NOT need some of these items----that's why when getting an estimate it should be broken down as to what the shop manager is basing his estimate on because you never know what he may have to add to the estimate once he gets the engine(s) apart. He may be assuming what you're going to be needing---and they usually have a pretty good idea, however until you actually get the engine(s) apart you won't always know exactally what the engine(s) will be needing for sure. You want to know EVERYTHING that particular $3500 is covering.
Let us know---I can basically tell you if he's in the ball park or not.
Mark/KAAMA
Last edited by KAAMA; 01-03-2003 at 12:47 AM.
01-03-2003, 06:10 AM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
KAAMA is basically correct. You should also check to be sure the bore and hone job, or just the hone, is done with a DECK PLATE!!
If not, you need at least a different machine shop. Also, if you change anything, especially pistons and/or rods, you must re-balance!! If you need assistance, pm me and I'll try to help any way I can. KAAMA seems to know what to do also, as do many of you guys.
If not, you need at least a different machine shop. Also, if you change anything, especially pistons and/or rods, you must re-balance!! If you need assistance, pm me and I'll try to help any way I can. KAAMA seems to know what to do also, as do many of you guys.
01-03-2003, 07:46 AM
#9
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If motor is in good shape why spend the money? Do a compression & leakdown test. After that then you may have a better idea what is going to need to be done if anything at all. Leakdown test takes a little more work to do so if a compression test shows problems then you just might want to tear down without spending time doing leakdown
01-03-2003, 07:47 AM
#10
Registered
Quiet Storm,
JimV and Turbojack are right, I would do a leak down or compression test as they have suggested as well. You may not even need a rebuild yet.
JimV and Turbojack are right, I would do a leak down or compression test as they have suggested as well. You may not even need a rebuild yet.
Last edited by KAAMA; 01-03-2003 at 07:51 AM.
