Lifter noise and oil weight/qty??
04-14-2003, 05:51 AM
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Lifter noise and oil weight/qty??
Budman and I checked valve adjustment on my 502 with new crane roller lifters and gold rocker arms yesterday. We used a valve cover with the top cut off. number 1 intake and exhaust seem to be the loudest when listening with a stethoscope. number 2 exhaust has a slight tick as well. Tried tightening them down a touch and it may have reduced some. I plan on going around with the adjustment again just to be sure.
I did notice that the amount of oil delivered to the rockers is very great at the rear of the engine and a little less as you move forward to the degree that number 1 does not have it puddling in the slot like 7 does. When first started up you can watch the oil start to pool in the rocker arm slot. It start with 7 and works forward but never gets a great deal at 1 exhaust (foremost in engine). I pulled the pushrod out of 1 exhaust and it was full of oil. Oil is 20/50 and engine temps will not come up on the garden hose. Am I just chasing an issue with too thick of cool oil and that is where the noise is? There is no very loud tick but on the stethoscope you can hear the difference between some of these rockers. Oil pressure is 60 at idle and when shutting engine off it holds for a bit.
Any thoughts? Crane says to get zero lash and go 1/2 to 1 turn so I put them at 5/8. Should I try a little more to the tight side?
Tim T.
I did notice that the amount of oil delivered to the rockers is very great at the rear of the engine and a little less as you move forward to the degree that number 1 does not have it puddling in the slot like 7 does. When first started up you can watch the oil start to pool in the rocker arm slot. It start with 7 and works forward but never gets a great deal at 1 exhaust (foremost in engine). I pulled the pushrod out of 1 exhaust and it was full of oil. Oil is 20/50 and engine temps will not come up on the garden hose. Am I just chasing an issue with too thick of cool oil and that is where the noise is? There is no very loud tick but on the stethoscope you can hear the difference between some of these rockers. Oil pressure is 60 at idle and when shutting engine off it holds for a bit.
Any thoughts? Crane says to get zero lash and go 1/2 to 1 turn so I put them at 5/8. Should I try a little more to the tight side?
Tim T.
04-14-2003, 10:24 AM
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Bumped it for ya...
ALso, I think you meant to say cylinders 1 & 3 - we stayed on the left bank of the engine...
Has anyone out there adjusted hydraulic lifters with the engine running? The procedure as I recall it is to back the rocker arm nut off until it starts clacking, slowly tighten it until the clacking quiets down, then give it an additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn to center the plunger in its travel.
Can anyone add to this? I have done it this way on hyd flat tappet engines, but have never adjusted valves on a hyd roller. Is there a different procedure for these?
Has anyone out there adjusted hydraulic lifters with the engine running? The procedure as I recall it is to back the rocker arm nut off until it starts clacking, slowly tighten it until the clacking quiets down, then give it an additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn to center the plunger in its travel.
Can anyone add to this? I have done it this way on hyd flat tappet engines, but have never adjusted valves on a hyd roller. Is there a different procedure for these?
04-14-2003, 10:48 AM
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That is how we set the lash on our Corvette with the engine running. We backed each off until we heard clatter, then thghtened it up until the clatter stopped and added 1/4 turn. Be sure the new cams' extra lift isn't causing the rocker to hit the valve cover in spots. I know that sounds simple, but it happens.
Good luck.
Good luck.
04-14-2003, 11:06 AM
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Its not the oil !!! That is the way to adjust the valves running ,,,the biggest mistake is turning the rocker stud nut to fast,,, turn alittle and wait !!!!!!!!!!
half turn is O.K. //
Gold rockers ,yep check them very good @180 hrs tops really ,,sure maybe more hrs. If your living right ,,,, Crane lifters check aswell crimp problem on some and axle bearings on a few new and alot 175 hrs.. let me know if I can help ,not the oil though
CHECK THEM ALL NEW OR USED ,PLEASE
half turn is O.K. //
Gold rockers ,yep check them very good @180 hrs tops really ,,sure maybe more hrs. If your living right ,,,, Crane lifters check aswell crimp problem on some and axle bearings on a few new and alot 175 hrs.. let me know if I can help ,not the oil though
CHECK THEM ALL NEW OR USED ,PLEASE
Last edited by bobby daniels; 04-14-2003 at 11:08 AM.
04-14-2003, 01:25 PM
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Tim,
Pull the other cover and see if oil is getting to the #2 rocker arms. This will give you more of an indication of whether or not it is a problem with the lifter/pushrod/rocker arm. If it is a little slow to oil up as well, probably a viscosity issue. Is there any chance that they gave you a Mark IV or Mark V cam instead of a Mark VI? Were there any changes made in the area of the cam design that could affect oiling?
Also, maybe you should swap the pushrod/rocker arm with one in the back to rule out a problem with those.
Pull the other cover and see if oil is getting to the #2 rocker arms. This will give you more of an indication of whether or not it is a problem with the lifter/pushrod/rocker arm. If it is a little slow to oil up as well, probably a viscosity issue. Is there any chance that they gave you a Mark IV or Mark V cam instead of a Mark VI? Were there any changes made in the area of the cam design that could affect oiling?
Also, maybe you should swap the pushrod/rocker arm with one in the back to rule out a problem with those.
04-14-2003, 02:17 PM
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Tim,
MARK 5 would fit as its the same cam but Mark 4 won't fit the block !! so forget that !!
you could run straight 50 wt and it would work its not the oil ,its only around 20wt when cold anyway if its a 20/50 as he said .also the number 2 side runs in a different oil passage than number 1.
you said there is not a loud difference or tick so its hard to tell what it is with out being there .Is the stuff all new ?? if not its most likly slop in the roller lifter axles and rockers together making some noise just check them as I said earlier then advise
MARK 5 would fit as its the same cam but Mark 4 won't fit the block !! so forget that !!
you could run straight 50 wt and it would work its not the oil ,its only around 20wt when cold anyway if its a 20/50 as he said .also the number 2 side runs in a different oil passage than number 1.
you said there is not a loud difference or tick so its hard to tell what it is with out being there .Is the stuff all new ?? if not its most likly slop in the roller lifter axles and rockers together making some noise just check them as I said earlier then advise
04-14-2003, 02:40 PM
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OK,
Got the water temps up to 120 and oil is still at about 100. Once water temp came up number one is oiling as well as 7. Noise went away at about one full turn. I have another that has a slight noise on the stethoscope and it as at one turn. What is the max turns? All this stuff is new.
Got the water temps up to 120 and oil is still at about 100. Once water temp came up number one is oiling as well as 7. Noise went away at about one full turn. I have another that has a slight noise on the stethoscope and it as at one turn. What is the max turns? All this stuff is new.
04-14-2003, 02:50 PM
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be careful with a stethoscope it easy to over tighten,you should not have to be that tight ,,,unless the stuff is warn !! if it is replace it or it could cost tons later !!1and a 1/4 is as tight as I would go but I really think your putting on a band-aid ,,I hope not good luck
04-14-2003, 03:14 PM
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Tim,
I really don't think you have a problem. I say run it for a while, as long as it is not an excessively loud clatter, and it is not from what I remember hearing. As bobby said, you can sometimes hear a little bit of "pecking" just from slight tolerances in the valvetrain. I would run it on the water a little to get everything heated up and "familiar" with each other, then maybe listen to it again. If you are still worried about, put it on the trailer and run it out to Carl or someone else with experience.
I really don't think you have a problem. I say run it for a while, as long as it is not an excessively loud clatter, and it is not from what I remember hearing. As bobby said, you can sometimes hear a little bit of "pecking" just from slight tolerances in the valvetrain. I would run it on the water a little to get everything heated up and "familiar" with each other, then maybe listen to it again. If you are still worried about, put it on the trailer and run it out to Carl or someone else with experience.
