Whipple Charged

Ken,

I'm not bashing anyone, I'm taking the information given and looking at it in a different viewpoint. as 93formula said "Most user problems with Prochargers have been a result of not getting the fuel management correct" I really disagree that Procharger doesn't sale complete kits, check out their web page or call and talk with them, 500 HP EFI's, 502 Magnums, even carb kits are packaged as "complete bolt-on packages." Heres a quote from Prochargers marine website regarding the 350 Mag MPI: "100% Complete; Installs in 3-4 Hours, with no Internal Engine Modifications."

I'm amazed that someone can say, hey I bought this complete kit, but had to then spend $$ and time fixing the fuel system and brackets or whatever and it's cool. That's like buying a new car and having to order the seat belts from another company later on. I never once said that a company does not give you complete kits, I'm going off the info 93formula provided. If their not complete, then hey, fuel systems, hardward, water system, etc. all need to be modified, but I was refering to complete kits.

I"ve never once said we don't have problems, were all human, it's typically how their handled which makes the big difference. I don't knock Procharger, I've always said they make great horsepower and they have massive intercoolers which do a lot of cooling, but when people keep giving false information, I would like to help set the record straghit. I've personally had many emails, calls, etc. about other co. problems and if I could help, which I have without making a dime because I love to help. I agree there is a lot of misinformation out there, no doubt about it.

I'm very proud of our testing standards, our taste, our quality, our product. I will tell you that we have quality that is second to none, ask our customers, how did it look, how about fitting, what about finish? I state the truth, and take info that is either supplied to me or what I have learned and share that with everybody. Hope this clears any misunderstanding up.

Thanks,
Dustin

Pyle, you wittle rascal you!! I'm telling Stacey!

cobra marty

Dustin, You're top notch. You are one of the 'gurus'. You bring to this board a tremendous amount of information, knowledge and helpfulness. Those that don't know will never know. Do you have any dyno curves for your systems? I am complying a library of engines, stock and modified, with their hp and rpm. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Winter is tough back east, bench racing sucks. Marty.

Kanookstr

I have a proCharger on my boat, And when I blew a head gasket after 78 hrs. Dustin helped me out on finding the reason. I thought that was very profesional of him. He didn't have to do that, but he did it because he likes helping us out. It's a nice change, now adays it's hard enough to get customer sevice , let alone from someone that doesn't even carry the products.
Dustin Your the Man And thanks for all the help....

Whipple Charged

cobra marty,

Thanks a bunch, I have some awesome dyno sheets, just got one from somebody that made 1493hp with our quad rotor setup, email me at work and I'll scan it in or fax it, my work email is [email protected].

Kanookstr, just doing my part, hope the same is done for me next time I need it, lord knows I need it sometimes. Maybe when somebody has women figured out, that would be nice, maybe somebody can shed some light on that? Pyle, that's you, you look so sweet in that pink pok-a-dot dress!!

Dustin

Cat & Mice

Hey guy's, As you know I know Dustin Pretty well .
Really Dustin has been a great Guy to work with on all of my projects even when things did not go right he was always there to help, He is a first class guy. I first called Whipple and wanted to talk to someone that could tell me the diff. between Whipples and Procharger, Dustin was put on the phone, I was shocked at how Honest he was and I could tell right away that he was very well informed. I ordered a Whipple and have bought many more since then. Since that first call I have became good friends with Dustin and I have only been more impressed the more I get to know him. I know this sounds like another (Hey Dustin's the Man thing) but I have not ever taken the time to mention how much he has helped me out on Boat and Truck projects.

Thanks Dustin

And by the way I think we should lay off the Homo thing, since your last email my wife is really starting to wonder Just messing around

RumRunner

I don't have a Whipple, or Pro-Charger system, but after working with both companies here is my opinion. Whipple's seem to be a simpler, more complete installation, where as the Pro-Chargers need to be installed by someone who is knowledgable in making (tuning) there system work.
As far as the numbers I've seen the Whipples do produce more torque quicker, and have a very flat curve. This can be a great thing if you have the proper equipment hanging off the back of your boat, and the loose nut holding onto the wheel, and sticks doesn't get out of control. As stated earlier in this thread you can (and some of us have) break drives naturally aspirated it's all up to you.

Pure Energy

Dustin,

Your contibutions and dedication to the industry and the members of this board goes above and beyond any expectation, there is no question about this. I just felt your response to 93formula was a little heated toward procharger, thats all. Maybe I should not have used the term "bash" in my last post but that was the 1st word that came to mind. I don't think anyone has all the facts when it comes to analyzing both products, myself included. I hope you understand.

Turbojack

I wish last year when I researched blower systems I would have taked to Dustin. I was interested in the quad rotor system & figured I was going to have to go EFI to get the clearance under my cover. The person I talked to told me the price was about $15K, plus what ever I needed to EFI. I was told I would have to go to another source for help on EFI since whipple did not supply . After some searching I did not find anyone in Houston area that was up on EFI & whipples only people that wanted me to take boat to them so they could set up. I check with procharger & after talking to some members on this board I decided that was the way to go. I have called procharger tech & got all the answers I needed. So far only have about $6k invested. Motor not together yet, hopefully I will have together & in water in next 3 weeks & then we will see what she will do

blown formula

TO DUSTIN & everbody else !!
Ok, here we go. I started out only discussing CHARACTERISTICS as factors to consider and now this.... I just gotta answer it!

Dustin, I appreciate your response BUT:
1.I never said Procharger was more efficient than Whipple !
2.If airflow is not a measure of efficiency then why does everyone worry about restrictive airfilters & flame arresters reducing airflow ?? not to mention exhaust systems?
3. I did say-Whipples create boost immediately off idle & Prochargers build boost gradually (softer boost off idle), therefore (drawing a reasonable conclusion) the more torque (throttle)applied coming on plane puts more stress on the drive. I am talking about ALL drives but mostly unmodified Bravo's, not XR's or other exotics most of us don't have. You agreed with me & my formula ( funny I should say that !)
weight+ torque=maximum load + stress (throttle)....or "the 'charger (whatever kind), the boat & the nut behind the wheel"
I'm glad we agreed here!
4. I did say- Prochargers become more efficient as rpm increase (airflow again?) & Whipples flatten out or lose effiency (you agreed with this in your post- you said "flat line or 10% variation"). Yes there are other factors involved, I agree. I also said- boost may or not be the same, there is a trade off"- from your post, you must also agree.
5. I never said "Prochargers are quieter at idle". I did say "the NEW Prochargers (self-contained) are quieter than the Whipples". You made no response to that.?.
6. I never said superchargers of any kind blow drives. Please re-read both of my posts. They eqate boost & where it occurrs, with weight (boat & load) as being a major cause of stress LEADING to drive failure. Not everyone can restrain themselves from sometimes "Hammering Down" off idle or maybe they are just pulling up skiers? Remember please, we are all not full time racers, we use these boats for ALL activities. Many if not most of us have wives, kids, houses, cars, trucks, atv's, snowmobiles, schools/colleges, ex-wives,etc. that we must also support. Not just our local outdrive dealer!
7. PLEASE ! I do not wish to get into an argument about "manufacturers Packages". I never went there. I, speak only from what I see here on OSO & with talking to others. Most problems with ANY SUPERCHARGER IS FUEL RELATED !! Please do a search on that & even Whipple is not excluded. This is the issue of primary importance to each of us. If someone can make fuel delivery better, more accurate &/or more efficient across the RPM/BOOST range, then I will try it. I like my engines to live a long time. Your reply was directed toward EFI & I never mentioned EFI fuel delivery or problems with Procharger & EFI. I spoke only of carb'd versions & their inherent "in-correctness" as manufactured (as a "suck thru vs. blow thru/pressurized application- but not in this post, see others). I recommended Nickerson's Performance sometimes because he was in on the developement process with Procharger & his work is outstanding.
8. I never said any manufacturer was best, most efficient, etc. I only offer information & my personal experiences. People (boaters) need to make informed decisions & ALL information is critical to that process. I understand AZ Speed does quite a business in ECM work for/on WHIPPLES, so I guess that puts that issue to bed about "other vendors fixing problems".
9. I recommended that "sejman" contact the manufacturer for their recommended installer.
Maybe my friend has so much trouble with his Whipple-charged engines (bought new in a new BAJA as previously mentioned) is because their is no shop support in this region. Hence "sejman's" question? Yes, it my be supported in Ca., Az, Fl., but where else??? Procharger is manufactured in the Midwest & supported there. I know not, the east or west coat situations & never implied I did.
10. If there are inaccuracies with the article in "POKER RUNS AMERICA", then you & Whipple should address those with the magazine. Maybe the will re-print & correct their article to your liking.
11. I think Dustin can be complimented for assisting others on this board as he has been many, many times. But please be ACCURATE, when critisizing (sp?) a post response.

Overall, I cannot say you disagreed with much I did SAY. Only in how you percieved it from your Whipplecharged position, as an attack. Which it was not. This is a discussion forum, not a manufacturers forum. All are allowed even if they have differing opinion & "favorites".
I hope I offended no one here, but when accused, one must answer when mis-quoted even in the same post.

Whipple Charged

93formula,

First off, I can go on for days regarding blower efficiency, but I don't have the time nor energy. The fact is that you always refer to the article in Poker Runs America where they showed an airflow graph. You always refer to this as an efficiency graph. Sorry for jumping the gun, just loved the line "unless you just like throwing away money" as you refered to Whipple causing more drive failures. I would usually say nothing, allowing others to discuss the topic, but with quotes like yours, I have to stand behind what I've learned and know. I know your only stating your opinion, but I have my own, as well as facts to show another view point.

The reason air filters, exhaust, etc. work on naturally aspirated engines is that the motor is creating a vacuum, exhaust helps scavenge the cylinders to create a larger suction, air filter/throttle bodies make the restriction (if there is any) less so the motor will have less vacuum and in turn have more air in the cylinder to create more energy per power stroke.

Airflow does matter, but is by no means an accurate way of measuring efficiency. Obviously, if you had a supercharger that pumped no air, it would be very inefficient. But what your not looking at is the power to produce that airflow, the temp in which it creates as it compress's or moves air, or the leakage of air that does not get compressed into the cylinder. A screw compressor has one of the highest, if not the highest volumetric efficiency as it turns higher in rpm, it gets near 99% VE at the top rpms. Very different than a roots, similar to a centrifugal. Centrifugal companies do not size superchargers per kit just to get peak efficiency on the top end, but the same as us, trying to get the largest HP/TRQ increase throughout the entire rpm range. After all, as we so wonderfully agreed, power is controlled by the operator, how much the throttle is opened, but I sure as hell would rather have that power in reserve for when I really need it

If I worried about all the misprints in every magazine, I would never get anything done, every month there's some "expert" that gets things wrong on blowers, fuel systems, exhaust systems, etc.

Maybe it's possible, although very far fetched, the SC's weren't installed properly or something wasn't maintaining in your friends Baja. I know it's a stretch, but possible. As I said before, everybody has problems. I don't think the midwest or southeast, or whatever should matter, sejmen should be able to get great service from us or one of our installing dealers such as PRI Marine or fellow OSO member Bruce.

Az. Speed and Marine are wonderful, we do a lot with them, but they don't make a business fixing our problems, they buy our systems minus fuel systems and attack them in different ways for the most part. This is not because we have problems, but because there the Delco/Delphi Marine distributor, have the Delco software that only a select few have and can buy parts sometimes cheaper than us. As I said, I work very closely with those guys and have many future projects in store. They do not supply us with calibrations or fixes, we get sensors, connectors, injectors and many other things from them as well as sharing info when possible.

There is no "blower war" regarding who's kit does what, thats for the public too decide. I'm here to help, as I've said many times, whatever your problem may be, if I can help from something that I've been through or ran across, then I'll offer my .02. So, if it's inaccurate info, then of course I'm going to offer some accurate info, especially if it's in my field of expertise.

I'm not sure why I'm having to explain myself, I'm offering accurate information, I might not be putting it in the correct form or context, but it's accurate.

Thanks for your time,
Dustin