DaBeezer

Greetings OSO Bro's,

I am sorry I have been absent, but between the new First Mate & mega job hours, I have had zero down time for OSO.

Unfortunately my marine related headaches have been far more abundant! The latest in the life and times of the "Barney 540", was discovered when I took off the manifolds last month to find water in the #7 & #8 cylinders with rust on the walls. The motor was pulled out of the boat in October and sat in the shop for three months. I guess I have trouble believing both manifolds failed in the same spots, allowing only water into #7 & #8 with the rest being bone dry? I hooked up a garden hose to the rubber hose between the manifold and the tail section and plugged the threaded pipe inlet side. Filled the unit up with water (ALLOT), kept pressure applied trying to get a leak out of the exhaust port, but nothing showed up. I admit that my process was not flawless, but it's the best I could come up with and was a royal PITA!

Is there somebody that can perform a more scientific test, before I assume these manifolds are "defective"?
I will be happy to pay for their time, unfortunately I am still recovering from my exposure to the "Bruce Dudley Cash Reduction Program"and I do not want to buy new headers unless I have to this season.

Thanks for your time,
[email protected]

Falcon

What is your engine idle rpm, in and out of gear and what is your idle timing at? Of course the cam makes a huge difference too. I think you are seeing the effects of reversion. The water wants to puddle on the lower wall of the tailpipe and it will work it's way up until it "rolls over" and runs down the back one or two header tubes (7&8?). Low idle speed on a big cubic inch engine, and a small throttle opening increase intake manifold vacuum during overlap. This increases the chance of reversion. Retarding the ignition timing at idle, increases the throttle opening for a set rpm, decreases manifold vacuum and decreases the chance of reversion at a set rpm. This also increases the idle egt which can help vaporize any moisture that does get back. Of course increasing idle rpm also helps. Another thing that can help is an "anti-reversion" ring in the collector or tailpipe to stop the water that is coming back up the wall of the tailpipe.

blue thunder

Glad to hear your pressure test checked out ok. I recently sold the farm to buy two sets of KEs and would hate like hell to start reading about problems with them. Your next test needs to be a leak test on those two cylinders. Exhaust valves slightly bent or just not sealing properly will suck a lot of water back looking like reversion.

Dave

Little Tommy

KE headers look like crap, but they work great!! We Dyno tested these against all Custom Marine's products and Stellings headers and found minimial to no difference in horsepower and torque. If you notice every header made out there has the same sweep as the KE. Where the KE shine is they have a very flat torque curve. As far as the water reversion, they are better than most and a business in Appleton Wisconsin makes the tail pipe piece for that header. You can call Preformance Stainless and get rid of the rubber hose and replace it with a solid piece so you can dump the water back furthur. This will assure you of no water problems. If you have any questions, give me a call. Im more than happy to help you out. One more thing, the durability as these things is awesome and they are not prone to cracking like individual stainless tubed pipes.

Little Tommy 414-349-8567

DaBeezer

Thanks for the replies guys,

As a rule I try to keep the idle above 675 rpm(in gear)
/ 800 r's (out), the timing on this motor was 36 with all in at 2500 via complete MSD system.

The valve-train is 100% hyd roller with the Cam @ 242 on the intake & 113 center line. I would rather my problem be reversion over internal cracks, but I would still like to have both manifolds "professionally checked", since I am not convinced my test was accurate. I am going to strip the motor down to the block today and I will have a better idea what's going on inside.

Thanks for the number Little Tommy, the modifications will definitely be installed if the pipes check out. Do you know if Perf Stainless will check the pipes and install the mods, or do they just sell the parts ? Where can I find out more about the "anti-reversion rings" Falcon, this is the first I heard of them.

FWK

I think you will find you are having a reversion problem Good luck

Falcon

CMI has them welded in in"some" of their tailpipes, up near the connection flange. It's similar to the flanged metal plate put in between the gil manifold and the tailpipes at the flange joint, except they work better up just at, or after the bend down in the tailpipe. I don't know if they are really called "anti-reversion" rings, but that's what I call them.
Merc Racing likes to keep their idle rpm on their efi engines at a minimum of 700-750 rpm in gear, I was told that below this, reversion is an issue. That's with the 500 inch engines, 540's would probably be worse. They also have less advance than usual at idle in the ecu to help also. It's easier to control timing when the ecu does it because it doesn't affect the max advance timing.
"Little Tommy" could maybe help in getting the tailpipes lengthened and/or ask about adding the rings. I would also consider bumping the rpm up just a tad and investigate what bringing back the timing a couple of degrees would do on the top end, unless you could figure out something with the initial to advance timing.
Of course this is if you find nothing else wrong that caused the water injestion.

Have Fun!

Dean Ferry

Dabeezer,
Sorry to hear about your motor problems, BUT congrats on the new first mate!
I have runs my KE's for over 250 hrs. on my old 454 Mag and my new HP500 Carb. with no problems. This is all saltwater running with a 15 minute flush everytime! One of the things that convinced me to buy the KE's was the fact that they looked like they would last a long time, (Knock on wood!) they appear to be doing fine.
Good luck, and let us know what you find out.
BTW, I have a set of DRY tail pipes, if you are interested let me know.
MD

KAAMA

I Keith Eickert is out of business---then is it still possible to get his exhaust manifolds these days?

509 SC

Kaama, I thought I heard Innovation marine had some KE exhaust manifolds, I remember a board member recently posted he bought 2 pair, thought he said he paid $2000 each. Not a bad price compared to everything else out there, especially considering their efficiency! Steve