bford1

I have a 357 Formula I bought with blown 454s with about 90 hours on them. The engines were built by a well known racing engine builder, Peter Pizzagalli of Pizzagalli Racing Engines, who I spoke with before buying the boat. The blowers are B&M 174s (I think) running about 5psi max. I don't have any specs on the internals of the engines. But, I do know that the previous owner (a high school friend of the engine builder) spent $22,000 with Pizzagalli rebuilding the engines (and that was the "buddy" price).

Anyway, Pizzagalli told me that the owner got a little cheap as he was finishing up the engines and he told him he needed some different valve covers but he didn't want to pay for expensive valve covers. So, he used cheap ones and they leak because they don't seal around the oil fill caps. So, I always get some oil getting blown out of the valve covers.

At first I thought ring blow by, right? But, with only 5psi and and less than 200 hours on rebuilds? Plus, both engines do the exact same thing.

Also, both engines run oil pressure of about 90psi! The gauges max at 80psi and they are pegged whenever the engines are running.

I recently had one of the engines out and did notice the massive Canton oil pans and that most of the lines are braided, etc. So, I know the money is in the engines. Could this just be an issue of me getting some different valve covers to stop the leaks? I know I'm going to get some ring blow by with the blowers but is this excessive? I did try replacing the breathers seen in the pic below with some hugh K&N breathers and it made no difference. The oil leakage out of the valve covers is much worse when it is under boost. Also, when I go under boost it will push the dip sticks out of their tubes about an inch on both engines.

I know that the first thought is blow by and ring seal with the blowers right? But, all that oil pressure (80-90psi) has got to have something to do with it doesn't it? Is that just way too much pressure? I've never heard of an engine running that much oil pressure but I am no expert.

I was thinking of trying a thicker oil (straight 50??) and/or adding two more breathers on each engine to replace the oil fill cap. Is that oil too think to run?

I definitely don't want to pull these engines and go through them. But, all this oil is driving me crazy.

Any advice, thoughts and/or opinions are appreciated. Thank you for the help!


Brent

HiPerf2000

They are 174 Blowers. I had the some one on my old boat. I too would get a bit of oil out of the breathers when i was in boost. I changed to a baffled sytle breather and that helped. not sure what brand they were as my builder ordered them for me.

The oil press. does seem too high. Are you sure the levels aren't too high?

HiPerf2000

BTW..... i ran 15-50 Mobil 1 in my motor.

PatriYacht

If your senders are not working, the gauges will max out. I almost lost an engine because of this. Actual pressure was much less. If you're getting oil around the fill caps, get new caps. The oil under the valve covers is not under pressure, it's just splashing around. Pull a beather hose and see how much blowby comes out there.

PatriYacht

Sorry, I just reread the part about you lifting the dipsticks. In my opinion you have a problem. How serious is hard to tell without a leakdown test. 525 Mercs used a similar blower and boost pressure without excessive blowby. Get your motor tested. The oil pressure senders are still probably bad.

MESABALANCING

HEY THE OIL PRESS I THINK IS THE LEAST OF YOUR WORRIES THE ONLY THING HEAVIER WHT OIL IS GOING TO CAUSE IS MORE OIL PRESS,I HAVE SEEN SOME OIL SENDERS WHEN CONNECTED WITH THE WRONG GAGES WILL READ BACK WARDS ALTHOUGH I DON'T BELIEVE THATS YOUR CASE. I BELIEVE YOUR BIGGEST CONCERN SHOULD BE THE AMOUNT OF EXCESSIVE BLOW BY SO MUCH AS TO PUSH THE BREATHERS OUT. TRY A COMPRESSION TEST AND A CYL LEAK DOWN AND SEE JUST HOW HEALTHY THOSE MOTORS ARE. IF YOU NEED MORE BREATHERS MOROSO MAKES A WELD IN BREATHER AND TUBE KIT 68800 THIS KIT COMES COMPLETE WITH TUBE AND BREATHERS AND THEY JUST HAVE TO BE WELDED IN PLACE THEY ARE GOING TO BE THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE BREATHER YOU CAN USE. DO THE COMP AND LEAK DOWN TEST AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS PM ME AND ILL TRY TO HELP YOU AS FAR AS I CAN GOOD LUCK HOPE EVERYTHING GOES GOOD LAZ MESA WWW.MESABALANCING.COM

Lmarth

I think you need to collect some data to understand what's happening. First priority is a compression test and leakdown test. If your leakdown numbers are bad you will have excessive pressure in the crankcase regardless of how many or how big your breathers are. You don't say what viscosity oil you're running. I don't follow the logic of going to a straight 50w if your oil pressure guages are pegged. If careful someone in your climate could probably get away with straight 50w. Oil pumps have a pressure relief valve. An old hot rod trick was to shim the spring to increase oil pressure. You might inquire whether that was done. The fact that you're blowing the dipsticks out suggests you've got excessive blowby. With 5# of boost I'd forget about the blowers being a big player in this situation. My guess is that you're running a relatively low compression ratio. The compression and more importantly the leakdown test will tell you all you need to know. Just my .02--Lou

GLH

Leak down, you have something going by to lift those dipsticks.

Here is a pic of another couple of Peter's engines me and Doc are looking at in Doc John's Eliminator. Peter is in Afganistan serving the country and is slated to come back in September.

bford1

Wow, thanks for all the replys.

I too was worried about the excessive blow by. When the boat was surveyed we did a compression test. I have the numbers soemwhere but don't recall. It checked out fine with less than 10% variation. We did not do a leak down test. Perhaps that should be my next step. I would just find it strange that the rings on both of those engines were bad with such a recent rebuild. If it was only pushing one dipstick out I'd think so. But, both after just 200 hours. Plus, the guy who sold it to me said it was doing that from the beginning.

The heavier oil was just a recommendation from someone. I'm running 10w40 now.

Thanks GLH. That's the other thing I forgot to post. Peter Pizzagalli, the engine builder, is in Afganistan so I can't call him for advice.

I didn't know the oil pressure sending units would cause the gauges to peg if they were bad. I will replace those. Can anyone tell me their location? Is it on the oil filter housing?

GLH

I think that is the oil temp sender bf.