Amsoil, what a waste of my money
02-24-2009, 07:50 AM
#31
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Maybe the thread's headline should read; "Synthetic oil,...." vs "Amsoil,..."
I have nothing against synthetic oils---I use them myself, but whether it is conventional oil or synthetics, when it gets dirty it's all dung!
I have nothing against synthetic oils---I use them myself, but whether it is conventional oil or synthetics, when it gets dirty it's all dung!
02-24-2009, 08:10 PM
#32
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Synthetics are proven to increase fuel economy. Not a "placebo" as you would say. My typical gain using AMSOIL is about 10% increase. That gain in itself pays for the extra that the oil costs plus some!
02-28-2009, 02:46 PM
#33
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Nothing against synthetics. I use synthetic because I believe it is a better lubricant. I've used Amsoil in my merc200 back in the 90's. Generally use Mobil1 in my boats and my cars, but not always.
My point is not that synthetics aren't better than regular oils.
The point is that I don't see how Amsoil could genuinely be NOTICEABLY better than (say) Mobil1 or other high end synthetics.
Any difference at that level would have to be so slight it could not be perceived.
My point is not that synthetics aren't better than regular oils.
The point is that I don't see how Amsoil could genuinely be NOTICEABLY better than (say) Mobil1 or other high end synthetics.
Any difference at that level would have to be so slight it could not be perceived.
02-28-2009, 05:24 PM
#34
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Synthetics can do 3 things for you:
-They flow better at colder temps and that means less wear when wear usually is significant escpecially at start up.
-They have a greater affinity to metals and increased film strength. Less metal to metal contact and they can handle fuel dilution better.
-In the case of Amsoil Marine or M-1 V-Twin they have a lot of corrosion inhibitors. A marine environment needs this as you know. These two products also have a good dose of detergents as well.
If I didn't use 100% synthetics then I would use use Mercury Semi-Synthetic as it has a high dose of the corrosion inhibitors you really do need.
-They flow better at colder temps and that means less wear when wear usually is significant escpecially at start up.
-They have a greater affinity to metals and increased film strength. Less metal to metal contact and they can handle fuel dilution better.
-In the case of Amsoil Marine or M-1 V-Twin they have a lot of corrosion inhibitors. A marine environment needs this as you know. These two products also have a good dose of detergents as well.
If I didn't use 100% synthetics then I would use use Mercury Semi-Synthetic as it has a high dose of the corrosion inhibitors you really do need.
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 02-28-2009 at 05:26 PM.
03-01-2009, 06:09 AM
#35
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[QUOTE=Hydrocruiser;2810949]Synthetics can do 3 things for yo
-In the case of Amsoil Marine or M-1 V-Twin they have a lot of corrosion inhibitors. A marine environment needs this as you know. These two products also have a good dose of detergents as well.QUOTE]
This has nothing to do with the basestocks, this is all additive package.
Three things synthetics are good for..........
1) Extreme cold...30 below and lower
2) Extended drain intervals
3) High operatinging temps..well over 300 F
Ken
-In the case of Amsoil Marine or M-1 V-Twin they have a lot of corrosion inhibitors. A marine environment needs this as you know. These two products also have a good dose of detergents as well.QUOTE]
This has nothing to do with the basestocks, this is all additive package.
Three things synthetics are good for..........
1) Extreme cold...30 below and lower
2) Extended drain intervals
3) High operatinging temps..well over 300 F
Ken
03-01-2009, 07:20 AM
#36
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Amsoil is a blender. They buy additives and base oils from various suppliers, including ExxonMobil. Their additive packages come from www.lubrizol.com for many of their oils.
http://www.lubrizol.com/products/pas...il/default.asp
ExxonMobil owns Infineum with Royal Dutch Shell. They too buy additives in the open market from several suppliers but a lot of Mobil 1's components are made by ExxonMobil. They are the largest producer of synthetic base oils.
Amsoil makes a good oil, but I've found they are not always the best. Some of their testing like the 4-ball wear test is nonsense and not even applicable to what goes on in a real engine. They also use different Noack volatility methods for several oils which is a bit sneaky IMO. The thin film o2 uptake test they use in their motor oil comparison test is also severely flawed.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...ue#Post1365938
http://www.lubrizol.com/products/pas...il/default.asp
Although most components are sold as complete performance packages, we can also help oil marketers custom formulate oils with special performance characteristics to help differentiate their products in the marketplace.
Amsoil makes a good oil, but I've found they are not always the best. Some of their testing like the 4-ball wear test is nonsense and not even applicable to what goes on in a real engine. They also use different Noack volatility methods for several oils which is a bit sneaky IMO. The thin film o2 uptake test they use in their motor oil comparison test is also severely flawed.
ASTM has this to say about the TFOUT test:
"This test method is intended to be used as a bench screening test and quality control tool for lubricating base oil manufacturing, especially for re-refined lubricating base oils. This test method is useful for quality control of oxidation stability of re-refined oils from batch to batch.
This test method is useful for screening formulated oils prior to engine tests. Within similar additive chemistry and base oil types, the ranking of oils in this test appears to be predictive of ranking in engine tests. When oils having completely different additive chemistry or base oil type are compared, oxidation stability results may not reflect the actual engine test result.
Other oxidation stability test methods have demonstrated that soluble metal catalyst supplies are very inconsistent and they have significant effects on the test results. Thus, for test comparisons, the same source and same batch of metal naphthenates shall be used."
Looks like a useful test for its intended purpose, but not necessarily for comparing oils of different formulations.
"This test method is intended to be used as a bench screening test and quality control tool for lubricating base oil manufacturing, especially for re-refined lubricating base oils. This test method is useful for quality control of oxidation stability of re-refined oils from batch to batch.
This test method is useful for screening formulated oils prior to engine tests. Within similar additive chemistry and base oil types, the ranking of oils in this test appears to be predictive of ranking in engine tests. When oils having completely different additive chemistry or base oil type are compared, oxidation stability results may not reflect the actual engine test result.
Other oxidation stability test methods have demonstrated that soluble metal catalyst supplies are very inconsistent and they have significant effects on the test results. Thus, for test comparisons, the same source and same batch of metal naphthenates shall be used."
Looks like a useful test for its intended purpose, but not necessarily for comparing oils of different formulations.
03-01-2009, 05:37 PM
#37
I like Amsoil's "specialty products". They seem to formulate a bit more custom to meet more specific broader needs...if you want to stick with one oil blender and not cross to other brands you can stick with them.
I don't think there is a "best" but there are a lot of "greats" these days.
I don't think there is a "best" but there are a lot of "greats" these days.
03-01-2009, 06:48 PM
#38
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Amsoil is a blender. They buy additives and base oils from various suppliers, including ExxonMobil. Their additive packages come from www.lubrizol.com for many of their oils.
http://www.lubrizol.com/products/pas...il/default.asp
ExxonMobil owns Infineum with Royal Dutch Shell. They too buy additives in the open market from several suppliers but a lot of Mobil 1's components are made by ExxonMobil. They are the largest producer of synthetic base oils.
Amsoil makes a good oil, but I've found they are not always the best. Some of their testing like the 4-ball wear test is nonsense and not even applicable to what goes on in a real engine. They also use different Noack volatility methods for several oils which is a bit sneaky IMO. The thin film o2 uptake test they use in their motor oil comparison test is also severely flawed.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...ue#Post1365938
http://www.lubrizol.com/products/pas...il/default.asp
ExxonMobil owns Infineum with Royal Dutch Shell. They too buy additives in the open market from several suppliers but a lot of Mobil 1's components are made by ExxonMobil. They are the largest producer of synthetic base oils.
Amsoil makes a good oil, but I've found they are not always the best. Some of their testing like the 4-ball wear test is nonsense and not even applicable to what goes on in a real engine. They also use different Noack volatility methods for several oils which is a bit sneaky IMO. The thin film o2 uptake test they use in their motor oil comparison test is also severely flawed.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...ue#Post1365938
A more than fair assement.
Ken
03-01-2009, 09:46 PM
#39
I think the 4-ball wear is a decent indicator in comparing Amsoil's own oils between each other more than anything.
That's fine...their chart's comparing other oils are worth a quick look too. If one oil is showing .40 mm wear and another >1.0 mm there is something to be said perhaps; but smaller differences may be within "test error". I want to see a +/- and a control in every test and include the Standard Deviation as well to prove the test's significance.
Bottomline is that Amsoil is a player in the business and though the marketing is tacky at times the stuff in the bottle is very good.
Amsoil's 20W-50
Motorcycle 20W-50
Marine 15W-40
Racing 15W-50
All products I would use in an offshore boat.
That's fine...their chart's comparing other oils are worth a quick look too. If one oil is showing .40 mm wear and another >1.0 mm there is something to be said perhaps; but smaller differences may be within "test error". I want to see a +/- and a control in every test and include the Standard Deviation as well to prove the test's significance.
Bottomline is that Amsoil is a player in the business and though the marketing is tacky at times the stuff in the bottle is very good.
Amsoil's 20W-50
Motorcycle 20W-50
Marine 15W-40
Racing 15W-50
All products I would use in an offshore boat.
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 03-01-2009 at 09:53 PM.
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