Hustler 500efi engine tear down & Build Up
12-04-2004, 08:47 AM
#101
Rob
VIP MemberThread Starter
Re: Hustler 500efi engine tear down & Build Up
Originally Posted by sutphen30
remember two things,,i build hand grenades, 
ok seriosly
thats great on the return line,very smart
whipples push air from the back to the front,,so you'd think that the 1/2 cylinders would be rich.i've pulled the plugs for color and whipple has some good distribution.
so what system are you leaning tordards.might want to get an lm1 air fuel monitor,i have one,best $350 spent.i'll get a link for it later.
ok serioslythats great on the return line,very smart
whipples push air from the back to the front,,so you'd think that the 1/2 cylinders would be rich.i've pulled the plugs for color and whipple has some good distribution.
so what system are you leaning tordards.might want to get an lm1 air fuel monitor,i have one,best $350 spent.i'll get a link for it later.
,The higest I have been is 475hp nitrous on a 355ci last weekend one just pushed the cylinder out of a donivan block, ordered a new one for this weekend and is fixen the other.I call these guy easy money guys because they dont have jobsOn the Whipple 3.3 I thought the air intake was at the rear of the motor???I have not seen a picture of them or a break down on how there made anywhere
I prob need to do the AFM since Mark is going to weld the bung for it anyway.
Fountainclimber thanks and goodluck to you to
thanks
Rob
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12-07-2004, 07:39 PM
#102
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Re: Hustler 500efi engine tear down & Build Up
tomcat,
I think you need to stick to what you know for facts. Have you run 8 wide range air fuel meters with our 2.3 or 3.3 setup? How about with a centrifugal setup and stock intake? How about a carb style intake? I highly doubt you've done this. EGT's are not a direct represenetive of air fuel ratios, even then, our EGT's are typically within 100deg. F from high to low at any given RPM, far superior to almost all naturally aspirated motors and centrifugal SC'd motors that use stock intake manifolds.
Some facts for you:
1. Our 3.3L Stage 3 and 4 kits have an average of .3 variance from cylinder to cylinder at peak HP on a 500HP EFI engine. At idle, 750RPM, the average variance is .55. At 80 Kpa, 4500RPM, cylinders are .7 variance. At 120Kpa, 4500RPM, cylinders are .2 variance.
2. Injecting fuel through the compressor creates a major cooling effect. The fuel goes through a phase change, from liquid form to gas form which creates a refrigerent cooling effect, notice the ice on top of the SC's after long hard running.
3. Because the screw compressor is just that, a compressor, it compress's the air and fuel together and discharges at a 1.35:1 ratio. This in fact mixes the air and fuel and prepares it better for combustion, it also allows for very even distribution from cylinder to cylinder.
4. Whipple intercoolers are made of cupronickel and have copper air fins, 24fpi, louvered which has the potential to remove more BTU's effectively than aluminum only cores.
5. Just some more random info, my 528ci HEMI motors that I run in my boat, with our own intake had an average variance of .1! Thats with 2.3AX quad rotor EFI with 17lbs of boost, intercooled.
If you want to go ahead and do some research on distribution, I would recommend purchasing 8 Horiba air fuel meters, the most accurate at the ratio levels commonly run in marine application. We are the US aftermarket distributor, we can get them for you, just a touch under $7000 each.
To note as well, Mercury Racing no longer uses any supercharger but screw compressors. No centrifugals, no turbos, no roots, just screw compressors. The 1075SCI has dual 2.3L superchargers, same as our standard 500HP EFI kits. Ford also used the same 2.3 for the new Ford GT, it's also slated to be utilizied on the 06' Cobra and 08' Lightning. This is not because of cost, since the screw compressor is nearly twice as much as a centrifugal. Also to note, Whipple Superchargers are now being utilizied by Sterling Performance (carb and EFI), Paul Pfaff Racing Engines, Teague Custom Marine, GT Performance and soon to be a few more that you'll see in the summer.
And with regards to programming, our kits offer some of the best, most advanced computer calibrations available in the marine market. We do a tremendous amount of calibration work for OEM's, emission compatible cars and trucks tdhat are 1000 times harder than a marine engine, as well as some of top engine builders in the country. All systems now return the fuel to the filter after the fuel cooler. Returning to the tank is actually not USGC legal and therefore our kits cannot be offered that way.
The rear inlet will not cause any problem with airflow in the 388 Slingshot.
Mark @ Precision Marine does a wonderful job and I certainly recommend them for whatever job it may be. They have a full service facility with tremendous resources and knowledge in the industry.
Thanks,
Dustin
I think you need to stick to what you know for facts. Have you run 8 wide range air fuel meters with our 2.3 or 3.3 setup? How about with a centrifugal setup and stock intake? How about a carb style intake? I highly doubt you've done this. EGT's are not a direct represenetive of air fuel ratios, even then, our EGT's are typically within 100deg. F from high to low at any given RPM, far superior to almost all naturally aspirated motors and centrifugal SC'd motors that use stock intake manifolds.
Some facts for you:
1. Our 3.3L Stage 3 and 4 kits have an average of .3 variance from cylinder to cylinder at peak HP on a 500HP EFI engine. At idle, 750RPM, the average variance is .55. At 80 Kpa, 4500RPM, cylinders are .7 variance. At 120Kpa, 4500RPM, cylinders are .2 variance.
2. Injecting fuel through the compressor creates a major cooling effect. The fuel goes through a phase change, from liquid form to gas form which creates a refrigerent cooling effect, notice the ice on top of the SC's after long hard running.
3. Because the screw compressor is just that, a compressor, it compress's the air and fuel together and discharges at a 1.35:1 ratio. This in fact mixes the air and fuel and prepares it better for combustion, it also allows for very even distribution from cylinder to cylinder.
4. Whipple intercoolers are made of cupronickel and have copper air fins, 24fpi, louvered which has the potential to remove more BTU's effectively than aluminum only cores.
5. Just some more random info, my 528ci HEMI motors that I run in my boat, with our own intake had an average variance of .1! Thats with 2.3AX quad rotor EFI with 17lbs of boost, intercooled.
If you want to go ahead and do some research on distribution, I would recommend purchasing 8 Horiba air fuel meters, the most accurate at the ratio levels commonly run in marine application. We are the US aftermarket distributor, we can get them for you, just a touch under $7000 each.
To note as well, Mercury Racing no longer uses any supercharger but screw compressors. No centrifugals, no turbos, no roots, just screw compressors. The 1075SCI has dual 2.3L superchargers, same as our standard 500HP EFI kits. Ford also used the same 2.3 for the new Ford GT, it's also slated to be utilizied on the 06' Cobra and 08' Lightning. This is not because of cost, since the screw compressor is nearly twice as much as a centrifugal. Also to note, Whipple Superchargers are now being utilizied by Sterling Performance (carb and EFI), Paul Pfaff Racing Engines, Teague Custom Marine, GT Performance and soon to be a few more that you'll see in the summer.
And with regards to programming, our kits offer some of the best, most advanced computer calibrations available in the marine market. We do a tremendous amount of calibration work for OEM's, emission compatible cars and trucks tdhat are 1000 times harder than a marine engine, as well as some of top engine builders in the country. All systems now return the fuel to the filter after the fuel cooler. Returning to the tank is actually not USGC legal and therefore our kits cannot be offered that way.
The rear inlet will not cause any problem with airflow in the 388 Slingshot.
Mark @ Precision Marine does a wonderful job and I certainly recommend them for whatever job it may be. They have a full service facility with tremendous resources and knowledge in the industry.
Thanks,
Dustin
Last edited by Whipple Charged; 01-12-2005 at 02:14 AM.
12-07-2004, 07:58 PM
#103
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Re: Hustler 500efi engine tear down & Build Up
Dustin,
Have you had any issues with the Nordic 35 flames getting water in the rear with large water? They have those two openings for air at the center of each engine at the platform and hatch. In the bay I have gotten water to enter and found it in the bilge when stooping. I am concerned that it might drown the engine. Any advice?
Have you had any issues with the Nordic 35 flames getting water in the rear with large water? They have those two openings for air at the center of each engine at the platform and hatch. In the bay I have gotten water to enter and found it in the bilge when stooping. I am concerned that it might drown the engine. Any advice?
12-08-2004, 06:13 PM
#105
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Re: Hustler 500efi engine tear down & Build Up
Rob, I am speechless. I never saw this thread until today. I am not speechless to the fact of your obvious talent and skill regarding the internal engine components and condition of each, What I am impressed with is your skill set of time management. I have to take some lessons.
Internet, good porn sites, posting on OSO, work, wife, home, children?, cars, boats: A master at time mangement.
Good luck on your project.
Internet, good porn sites, posting on OSO, work, wife, home, children?, cars, boats: A master at time mangement.
Good luck on your project.
12-08-2004, 07:21 PM
#107
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Re: Hustler 500efi engine tear down & Build Up
i have a question about the cylinder heads that were on your motor?? what size valves came in them and did the bowl area look like it had been cut out with a counter-bore cutter ?? Was there any venturi left??
12-08-2004, 07:50 PM
#108
Registered
Re: Hustler 500efi engine tear down & Build Up
sutphen30: Thanks for the info on the plug check with the whipple.
Dustin: Damage to rear cylinders is what I was told. I speculated in my post that fuel distribution from the front entry might explain the observation. Then sutphen30 responded with his plug check info that showed good distribution and you posted your data on A/F ratios. Now I'm thinking that maybe the intake air just got too hot. Maybe the rear cylinders always run hot and are just the first to detonate when you get too close to the edge.
The point is that nobody really wants to become an expert in engine damage. They want a system with some built in safety margin. You don't need $56,000.00 worth of sensors to check for uniform fuel distribution if you use port injection. And you don't need to worry about intake air temps if you use a big intercooler. Copper fins, denser fins, evaporation of fuel in the compressor, all become unnecessary.
Tom
Dustin: Damage to rear cylinders is what I was told. I speculated in my post that fuel distribution from the front entry might explain the observation. Then sutphen30 responded with his plug check info that showed good distribution and you posted your data on A/F ratios. Now I'm thinking that maybe the intake air just got too hot. Maybe the rear cylinders always run hot and are just the first to detonate when you get too close to the edge.
The point is that nobody really wants to become an expert in engine damage. They want a system with some built in safety margin. You don't need $56,000.00 worth of sensors to check for uniform fuel distribution if you use port injection. And you don't need to worry about intake air temps if you use a big intercooler. Copper fins, denser fins, evaporation of fuel in the compressor, all become unnecessary.
Tom
12-09-2004, 01:04 PM
#110
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Re: Hustler 500efi engine tear down & Build Up
The MEFI 3 port injection is batch fired - 4 at once. So, some of that charge must vaporize on the port surfaces resulting in uneven distribution. Does it matter-who cares! Dustin's kit (at least the one I have) retains the stock injectors and furnishes 2 aux. injectors in the throttle body when running under boost. Purging the aux. system upon installation is easy- just apply pressure to the hose that goes to the Whipple computer. Lung pressure is all it takes. My 502 MPI motor runs flawlessly after 2 seasons with the kit.
Regards,
Mark S.
Regards,
Mark S.
