Aluminum heads
03-16-2005, 03:19 PM
#31
Re: Aluminum heads
With dogs, cats, and farm animals aside. I was just wondering what a couple more degrees of duration on the exhaust side of the cam would do on a 1400 hp engine. Right now there is an 8 degree difference, thought someone might have tried a 10 or 12 degree spread.
03-17-2005, 12:27 AM
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Re: Aluminum heads
Originally Posted by GPM
With dogs, cats, and farm animals aside. I was just wondering what a couple more degrees of duration on the exhaust side of the cam would do on a 1400 hp engine. Right now there is an 8 degree difference, thought someone might have tried a 10 or 12 degree spread.
I want to talk about farm animals!
03-17-2005, 08:30 AM
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Re: Aluminum heads
GPM,
By adding to 8 or more degrees of duration to the exhaust you are going to just blow power out the pipes over the average powerband of the engine.
I had a good conversation with an engine builder in a different "arena" last night and the topic of duration split came up with his particular engine type. It has an I/E of around 80% and he runs reverse splits in his stuff. As far as the "majority" they think he is crazy but one of his customers is the fastest "cam only" cars in the country. My point is the "establishment" has gone with large duration splits over the years. It is my belief in the next 4 to 6 years you will see more and more single pattern, tighter duration spreads, and some reverse stuff as cylinder heads get better. Look at the OEMS. GM now has a factory car with an engine that has more intake duration then it does exhaust.
Chris
By adding to 8 or more degrees of duration to the exhaust you are going to just blow power out the pipes over the average powerband of the engine.
I had a good conversation with an engine builder in a different "arena" last night and the topic of duration split came up with his particular engine type. It has an I/E of around 80% and he runs reverse splits in his stuff. As far as the "majority" they think he is crazy but one of his customers is the fastest "cam only" cars in the country. My point is the "establishment" has gone with large duration splits over the years. It is my belief in the next 4 to 6 years you will see more and more single pattern, tighter duration spreads, and some reverse stuff as cylinder heads get better. Look at the OEMS. GM now has a factory car with an engine that has more intake duration then it does exhaust.
Chris
03-17-2005, 10:29 AM
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Re: Aluminum heads
Here Bill, I will give you a list of customers you can call:
Midwest Motorsports
800 262 5033 Ask for Brett Meier, the owner
Has multiple dyno results for Marine, Circle, and Drag. Multiple cam tests over the years.
Performance Unlimited
954 438 0237 Ask for Marty, the owner Multiple replaced cams on dyno'ed combinations. I think Laz will vouch for Marty that he builds some nice stuff.
Gary Watson Racing
409 753 2370, Ask for Gary, the owner. No dyno results just track improved combos.
Shaw and Sons Machine
270 678 2565. Ask for Jeremy. Multiple BBC combo's with duration splits based on I/E ratio
Thunder Racing
877 516 7223 Ask for Geoff, the Owner. Multiple dyno comparisons on camshafts based on I/E ratio.
Balls in your court Bill. You can call any or all. All of wchich know me and one of them I don't do any work for but I respect his views on making power. All of which have done multiple cam test, cam changes on combos with all types of cylinder heads including high flowing stuff. Also I would invite you to call John at Canfield and get his view on cam duration based on I/E ratio. Then I would call Joe Petelle at HVH and ask him about cam duration on exhaust with high flowing exhaust ports.
There you go, I have supplied the resources now you do the investigating.
Chris
Midwest Motorsports
800 262 5033 Ask for Brett Meier, the owner
Has multiple dyno results for Marine, Circle, and Drag. Multiple cam tests over the years.
Performance Unlimited
954 438 0237 Ask for Marty, the owner Multiple replaced cams on dyno'ed combinations. I think Laz will vouch for Marty that he builds some nice stuff.
Gary Watson Racing
409 753 2370, Ask for Gary, the owner. No dyno results just track improved combos.
Shaw and Sons Machine
270 678 2565. Ask for Jeremy. Multiple BBC combo's with duration splits based on I/E ratio
Thunder Racing
877 516 7223 Ask for Geoff, the Owner. Multiple dyno comparisons on camshafts based on I/E ratio.
Balls in your court Bill. You can call any or all. All of wchich know me and one of them I don't do any work for but I respect his views on making power. All of which have done multiple cam test, cam changes on combos with all types of cylinder heads including high flowing stuff. Also I would invite you to call John at Canfield and get his view on cam duration based on I/E ratio. Then I would call Joe Petelle at HVH and ask him about cam duration on exhaust with high flowing exhaust ports.
There you go, I have supplied the resources now you do the investigating.
Chris
Last edited by cstraub; 03-17-2005 at 10:32 AM.
03-17-2005, 11:08 AM
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Re: Aluminum heads
Tomcat,
Please explain to Bill about Midwest Motorsports involement with your product with a twin engine Black Thunder that they did the engines for using your set up. Please give us your opinion on Bretts engine knowledge since he has been grouped as a "Circle Jerk" track guy.
Chris
Please explain to Bill about Midwest Motorsports involement with your product with a twin engine Black Thunder that they did the engines for using your set up. Please give us your opinion on Bretts engine knowledge since he has been grouped as a "Circle Jerk" track guy.
Chris
03-17-2005, 11:30 AM
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Re: Aluminum heads
Bill,
I have supplied several customers as reference to back my findings up. I don't know why you find it so hard to call these guys. If I do it you just call BS. I even supplied you some with toll free numbers so you are not out of pocket.
or we can do this;
A neutral board member willing to test camshafts that has no affilation with either of us. Each of us will send him a camshaft based on the rpm range the engine will run in. The member is to supply all the information on the combo. We each will then select and send cams for the test. The one that makes the most average HP will be declared the winner and the looser will pay for the the winners camshaft. The board member willing to do the test keeps both cams.
So if you want will through theory and past experiences to the side and just prove it here on the board.
Chris
I have supplied several customers as reference to back my findings up. I don't know why you find it so hard to call these guys. If I do it you just call BS. I even supplied you some with toll free numbers so you are not out of pocket.
or we can do this;
A neutral board member willing to test camshafts that has no affilation with either of us. Each of us will send him a camshaft based on the rpm range the engine will run in. The member is to supply all the information on the combo. We each will then select and send cams for the test. The one that makes the most average HP will be declared the winner and the looser will pay for the the winners camshaft. The board member willing to do the test keeps both cams.
So if you want will through theory and past experiences to the side and just prove it here on the board.
Chris
03-17-2005, 11:57 AM
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Re: Aluminum heads
Bill,
I don't have a shop. I do sit behind a computer everyday and design/quote/ and sell parts. I am not on the front lines anymore, gave that up years ago. I would think a person of your background and knowledge would take up this test since you do this work everyday and in your own words " I think in theory and have nothing to back it up. So since you can pull "what works" from the industry you should have no problem making more power then this redneck from TN.
Chris
I don't have a shop. I do sit behind a computer everyday and design/quote/ and sell parts. I am not on the front lines anymore, gave that up years ago. I would think a person of your background and knowledge would take up this test since you do this work everyday and in your own words " I think in theory and have nothing to back it up. So since you can pull "what works" from the industry you should have no problem making more power then this redneck from TN.
Chris
03-17-2005, 02:24 PM
#40
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Re: Aluminum heads
Just a note guys-- I'm not liking where this thread is going. I suggest you guys chill out or someone will poof it.
Everybody has their own ideas/opinions. We don't need to get so uptight about it !!!!
Everybody has their own ideas/opinions. We don't need to get so uptight about it !!!!
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