kap328

Uncle Dave:

You made a great selection on hull choice and color combinations. It is surprising no one has commented on the power choice you have selected.

You are currently running 500HP in a 20.5 ft boat that weighs substantially less than a fully rigged 2750. Your horsepower increase is only 200HP more than what your current set-up puts out with twice the weight.

It also seems that you enjoy pushing the limits of your current boat and making it do some amazing things. All I can say is dive deep into your wallet, credit line--- bucket of duckets and put substantially more power in that boat.

I would bet that you will outgrow the Ilmor power output and or performance--- of that boat in about 50 hours if not sooner. Plus, in the heat of Oh! 110 degrees at Havasu/Parker that motor is going to lose a lot more HP/snap than you ever expected.

Given the choices you suggested the only one that remotely comes close is the Teague 800 but even that motor has no potential to grow in terms of changing the setup to make it give-up more HP.

If the motor is not in the boat you can still make another decision.

Good luck--- I know the hull is a winner--- I have driven one.

Respectfully,

KAP

P.S. The best drive choice in my opinion is a Max Machine Worx 900 or full Billet upper and lower unit.

Uncle Dave

Thanks- actually I've gotten more kudos that warnings on the power choice.

Im also concerned, as you state and actually went over the same metrics in an earlier post.

Teague 800 is actually cheaper, but not fresh water cooled, and the whole reason for buying the 2750 is that I'm 6 miles from the ramp in Marina Del Rey. This boat will see significant salt water time and I dont want the hassle of pulling a motor every 3-5 years on a boat have 10 years to pay for.

I used to have a house in the Moovalya keys in Parker so I know better than most how heat saps power- the same heat also causes detonation in a supercharged motor.

A guy named Quent also reccomend the max machine works but is also loving his 24 with a Ilmor in it and is running 93 - and the 2750 is actually a faster hull that the 24 is acording to the engine/ HP hull combo test you or anyone can download so motivation should be pretty god,

For sure another 1-300HP would be great, but its hard to get that without a blower. A few guys like nelson racing, and a few select others can build a motor that will get there, but not with aluminum blocks and marinized the same way this ilmor is. I've Been rebuilding blower motor my whole life and as much as I hate to say it- Im ready to settle for just a bit less power to get longer trouble free life out of the components I do have

IF I can get 90 with all the stuff Im loading up in this thing Ill be happy.
If I really wanted to go fast Id be getting a cat, but Im going for medium speed and overall ride quality

There will only be a few V's at any given outing that'll outrun me with this setup anyway and fewer that can do it on the motor alone and sound as cool.

(Im keeping my tunnel hull for those calm river moments anyway)

Thanks- I get it.

Uncle Dave

Laveycraft 2750-Ilmor 7/10
Laveycraft 20.8 Sebring
Fleetwood nitrous toy hauler
Yamaha raptor 700/Kawi KFX 450
Nissan Titan

Hot Knots

If you had gone with the Weismann #6 you wouldn't be having that conversation. Having said that, the Teague Platinum is the drive Ilmor recommends until it comes out with its own drive.

Quent

Dave, I still believe, even after all the various opinions, that you have made a sound decision. I certainly would have purchased the 2750 if I could have gotten the walk through bow. I just don't know what package could beat your parameters---offshore, closed cooling, fast, dependable, incredible quality, different, beautiful.

You can rest easy, I believe. There is very little credible evidence to prove otherwise. Stand tight brother. Quent

kap328

Dear Uncle Dave:

I read and reviewed your response--- given your goals of medium speed I would agree with your choice for power.

The initial reaction was that it was your desire to push the boat to it's limits much like your current ride. Rest assured this power package will not push the hull to it's limits but will provide a comfortable "medium" benchmark as a power choice.

FYI--- the new EFI blower motors that are axial blowers versus roots/carbureted type are very trouble free and provide great longevity and service intervals for the recretional boater. [Please see Mercury HP motors from HP600 and above as a benchmark.]

Our previous, Lavey was in the ocean all the time with a raw water system and the engine did not have any issues after five plus years of running it in the salt virtually every week. [Note: I did not say anything about the trailer which went to hell in a hand basket rather quickly despite zealous flushing.] Don't get me wrong I like closed cooling for the ocean but it definitely limits your choices as a performance boater.

We also have five boat launches within 2 miles of our home which are gateways to the Pacific ocean and understand your desire to put the boat in the ocean.

It sounds like your choices have been tailored for your needs. I personnally, always like to have more power than I need especially if this is a new build. Hence the more power approach---I will refer you to the old adage--- you never heard of a boater who wished he had less horsepower or the smaller engine.

I know this is an exciting time for you and your family so post up some photos of your build and let us know the details.

Very truly yours,

KAP

Uncle Dave

Thanks Kap- I see your Avatar says "Howard TPI 851"

is that a Taylor performance 851 engine you are using,
is the hull a Bullett?.

I actually almost bought that same combo, but was looking more for deep water stuff than a lake rocket ride. whats your rig run?

I like Taylors engines even better than Teagues. - show quality and hand made with great parts. My only issue and its minor is that Taylors a one man deal, and if I try to sell the boat to someone in the east in the future they wont know him from Adam (almost the same with teague) With Ilmor I'll have a little bit better recognition of my engine if not drive package.

Taylors is simply a great builder, if not the best small builder out there, and was very cool to me, but when I asked him if he'd build me a 632 cube non blown injected engine, he answered with the most bizarre answer Ive ever heard from a custom engine guy he called it a "waste of cubic inches". I figures it would be a great way to build 850+HP, but I cant get a marine guy to do it. (Steve Shcmidt is a probably an exception)

To your point of longevity- I'm aware the new "screw type" blower fuel injected rigs are better than the older style helix blowers.

However they still wear out faster, pump belt dust all over the bilge, and are much more sensitive to a problem I've never been able to solve- being at the far end of a 90 mile long lake and getting a tank of crappy fuel. Its getting harder to find 92 anymore on the water and I might add at least on the West Coast fuel quality is getting worse with ethanol and other sketchy additives. Its not that Im trying to be cheap - its just that good gas cant always be had where I boat. a Non blown engine is FAR more practical where I boat.

I must be the only guy that has this problem, or at least is willing to talk about it. And this problem is only going to get worse. I fI could be asured a continuous supply of premo gas Id look at it far more.

I have first hand experience with a friends chaparral 24 foot boat having innards that turned into powder after 7 years, but that was a lat e90's small block powered ride, perhaps you had better luck because the newer engines have better corrosion protection or you simply got rid of it at a good time, hard to tell between what Ive watched and what I hear.

I know for a fact intercoolers(I think they are "cupronickel") rust out fairly quickly & degenerate in capability along the way.

The merc 600 is a great package, and I love the NMEA 2000 compliant electronics, but as to your comparison, I cant see owning a blown cast iron big block that only makes 100 more ponys than my carbed 406. IF I'm going back to blowers Ill need at least 900 ponies to justify the difference in longevity. My Ilmor 700 has a 2 year warranty- I dont see anything from merc or anyone with that much backing- although Im likely to keep this puppy at least 10
years.

Yeah bummer here is I have the money to buy as much power as I want- its just that nobody really makes it the way I need it.

For a website called "Offshore" I don't read much about guys actually going very many places offshore other than running up and down the beachfront as fast as they can, and I feel like a rare bird when talking about outfitting my rig with radar and a plotter so I can navigate safely at night in the ocean or a big lake.

I like chatting with you Kap, thanks for the great discussion and Id love to see a pict of your ride- sounds killer.

Uncle Dave

Laveycraft 2750-Ilmor 7/10
Laveycraft 20.8 Sebring
Fleetwood nitrous toy hauler
Yamaha raptor 700/Kawi KFX 450
Nissan Titan

kap328

Hello Uncle Dave:

Well to answer your initial questions---yes! we are running one of the first Taylor Performance 848HP motors it is the one in candy blue if you look at his website.

I run a Max Machine Worx 900 drive with various Bravo I four blade lab finished props.

The hull is a 2008 Howard 28Sportdeck--- yes thats right sport deck . If you want to see photos we have some published in Performance boat magazine and other boating journals. We recently took first place at LOTO in our class by a 13MPH--- a huge margin to say the least. The boat also won the Desert Storm Shooutout in 2008, the boat ran 101MPH on the GPS. We definitely will have a bulls eye on us as racers/people in that class will now be gunning for us in 2009.

A little background---We had a Lavey before we moved over to Howard and we know the Camire family really well and from a consumers standpoint they build excellent boats. The 2750 is one of my favorites if your gonna boat in saltwater our closest friends have one with a HP525 and it runs really well. I just wish it had more HP in it and he now agrees with me much to his regret. Kinda, why I wanted you to go bigger but the Ilmor is a great choice for what you want to do.

As far as re-sale in the East I will say this--- very few people on the East coast will buy a west coast boat and it doesn't matter what engine or manufacturer you choose. If the boat is not a Fountain, Baja, Donzi, Cig or OuterLim. etc... forget it--- they will not be interested. The re-sale market for your boat will be the west coast hands down.

As far as blower motors go if you rode around with me one day and witnessed what these new motors are capable of and how trouble free they are you will be all green smiley faced at the end of the day. We have 83 hours on this combination and frankly I have outgrown the power already the motor has been awesome puts out monster power even on 91 octane without so much as a hiccup.

We will be in Havasu for the Un-official Lavey regatta as it is scheduled at the same time the Howard Regatta is going on the same weekend. Ray Lee is putting this one on for the Lavey people we plan on being at the Turtle on Friday nite to say hello to our Lavey friends.

If you see our boat please come and say hello it is a silver and blue boat no ensignia but the name is Miss Silver Bullet on the back.

I also enjoy talking with you let me know if you need a wingman to go out on the ocean---San Diego has a lot of great places to see if you trailer down and launch---Coronado islands [you can see them from our balcony] Mission Bay, San Diego harbor and more.

KAP

P.S. The radar and plotter honestly is not necessary a 27-30ft boat in the ocean at night is a scary proposition. If by plotter you mean screen GPS---then yes that is a great idea since you can get fogged in and at least you can find the entrance to the harbor. I have some stories about that I could share with you. Do not eliminate the compass if you plan on saltwater nav. the GPS can quit but the compass will always be good to go .

Quent

Dave, I am patiently waiting for pictures. This is going to be good. No more back seat second guessing from anyone not paying for your ride. Hurry. Quent

Uncle Dave

Quent, Been in Amsterdam all week and off to Montreal tomorrow so I'm at least another week away from picts.

I was at the shop 2 weeks ago and Chris and I were going over the electronics & lighting. Im using ocean LED Amphibian- led's for "beach" lights and Apeiron tri color led's in the cabin and below deck. He also had a smaller unit of the same make as the airconditioner/heater Ill be placing in the "stabin Cabin" and figuring out where to put the dvd screens go.

Thanks for the morale boosting support!

Kap-

If you actually trace my earlier posts I was waxing poetic about how Lavey almost lost my business to Howard on that very same deckboat. I will actually take you up on your offer to cruise San Diego Bay because Ive been yearning to check that area out down there and Ill scheudle a short road trip when after taking delivery- shoudl be a blast.

3 things to chat about

I cant make the Nada Regatta/Howard Regatta because I'm out of town working a European trade show (which Is why Ive missed most Lavey regattas for the last 10 years- the other show I work is always coincides wit he long beach grand prix- oh well......) I don't need to wish you a good time and tell you to have fun because that's like calling the "department of redundancy department."

OK ......your well above MEDIUM speed rig is a CAT! (does it have a center pod or not? I never saw one in person Id guess so though) If Im lucky with all the crap Im putting in m rig Ill get 90 with 700 ponies and a V. Is a cat with 148HP more thats 11MPH faster the difference between MEDIUM speed and a fast boat? Or does fast mean 100MPH+?

When you run in your LOTO bracket is it categorized as deck boats, or cats?

Either way- Im gonna beg, bribe, borrow, cajole, wheedle, or con a ride on your rig somehow!

Problem is.... I do know what you mean (and agree) about power fixes, my hyabusa was awsome for about a season then started to feel average- The only guy with enough power is the guy with the most.

Good point about the compass- I usually have at least 2 handheld GPS/radio units aat one time but your point is well taken.

As for radar/plotter Jeff Camire said the exact same thing- I dont need it, but with Catalina and Santa Cruz my major destinations and me taking peoples families out all the time, needs and wants are just gonna collide on this one.

Any time Ive ever gone anywhere with the ladies Ive never left on time, (and what fun is a sausage party?) in the ocean the radar can make the difference between navigating around something, or killing your crew hitting a cable between a tug and a barge, or being fogged in for hours and having to go 10MPH there's a LOT of traffic in that channel, and Id just rather have 100% peace of Mind and the freedom of coming and going anywhere I feel , whenever I feel.

Id also be lying if I said all that wasnt simply more toys to play with and the new Furuno Navnet 3d gear is just AWESOME, and since Im not going 100MPH..........

"Uncle Dave"

kap328

Amsterdam ehh!!!

Nice place I must put that one on my bucket list.

Hey no problem with coming down to San Diego I know the spots like the back of my hand and all the launch ramps.

As far as getting a ride on our boat no problem it is still in race mode 110 VP and I will bring it down to pump gas mode after Havasu.

Oh! that is 101MPH from an in gear standing start with only a mile to hit your best speed. To get from 90 to 100 is a huge deal and to do so in the dead of summer is even more difficult. It is a cat with a center pod and our family boat as well--- our kids have fun being pulled in tubes and fish right off the swimstep. It also has a 9.5 foot bimini, sliding cooler, and two tables---hows that for a 100+ mile and hour rig.

The Furuno navnet 3d is awesome stuff I doubt you could get much better I would go with the 12 inch screen versus the 8 easier to see--- night and day.

Note:
I usually never come on Offshore only if only to look at the classifieds I may renew my membership. We are looking for a saltwater boat but will wait until 2009. There is a beautiful Doug Wright cat ready for power but that is more of a pipe dream than reality---laughing.

I would agree with Quent get some photos up on your build this is your moment to shine or at least make us green with envy.

KAP