40' Outlaw Upgrades - Twin 900Sc to 1000hp Duramax Diesels
04-07-2022, 12:52 AM
#1401
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Thread Starter
Yesterday was yet another learning experience. Had planned to share some solid slip data we could all hash out. But instead, I have yet another heavily redacted technical post.
So on the lower of a dry sump SSM VI is stamped L & R above the prop shaft. And for the last few months I've been ask a dozen times, "Why is the L on the Right/Stbd side, and the R on the Left/Port side?" Answering, it only has to do with prop rotation. To spin inward they go on that way.
Ya might recall a few posts above that I commented that changing the lowers only took an hour. Never even drained the oil. Which actually comes right up to the top of the lower unit. So why do they call it a dry sump?? Anyways, I mount the props up yesterday, wait until 4pm for winds to die down, and head off to the ramp. Back the boat in, tie it up, and fire up the engines. My brother tosses the bow line onto the deck, and starts to untie the stern. I pull both shifters into reverse, and if there was one less wrap on the cleat, it would have been a replay of.....
Yes I had the props correctly spinning out. However, guess what never changed directions after swapping those lowers?? Quickest boat ride since the start of this project.. And learned something about 6's.
.
So on the lower of a dry sump SSM VI is stamped L & R above the prop shaft. And for the last few months I've been ask a dozen times, "Why is the L on the Right/Stbd side, and the R on the Left/Port side?" Answering, it only has to do with prop rotation. To spin inward they go on that way.
Ya might recall a few posts above that I commented that changing the lowers only took an hour. Never even drained the oil. Which actually comes right up to the top of the lower unit. So why do they call it a dry sump?? Anyways, I mount the props up yesterday, wait until 4pm for winds to die down, and head off to the ramp. Back the boat in, tie it up, and fire up the engines. My brother tosses the bow line onto the deck, and starts to untie the stern. I pull both shifters into reverse, and if there was one less wrap on the cleat, it would have been a replay of.....
Yes I had the props correctly spinning out. However, guess what never changed directions after swapping those lowers?? Quickest boat ride since the start of this project.. And learned something about 6's.
.
04-07-2022, 03:32 AM
#1402
Registered
When you mentioned swapping lowers to change rotation earlier I was surprised that’s all it took, and it didn’t make sense to me having looked at the #6 cut away many times, but then I don’t really know squat about 6s. So the only way to reverse rotation is to reverse input correct?
I know what it’s like for the brain to just assume something and in that brain’s brain it quickly becomes fact, until it doesn’t.
I know what it’s like for the brain to just assume something and in that brain’s brain it quickly becomes fact, until it doesn’t.
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kidturbo (04-07-2022)
04-07-2022, 07:05 AM
#1403
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Ah man that's too funny but yeah you need to swap the entire drive.
Different situation but funny story I was on a friend's boat who accidentally put his props on backwards and we shoved off the dock at the boat ramp he turns around puts it in reverse and we are going forward. Instinctively I scream Forward, Forward, put it in Forward, which he does with a confused face just in time for us not to drive up the concrete boat ramp!
Different situation but funny story I was on a friend's boat who accidentally put his props on backwards and we shoved off the dock at the boat ramp he turns around puts it in reverse and we are going forward. Instinctively I scream Forward, Forward, put it in Forward, which he does with a confused face just in time for us not to drive up the concrete boat ramp!
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04-07-2022, 11:36 AM
#1404
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Thread Starter
Ya really don't know how hard that is to compute until your actually caught in that situation. Few seconds later, yeah I had no problem pushing the sticks forward to go backwards a bit. But when it happens unexpectedly, your brain just doesn't wanta accept that everything you've done hundreds of times isn't the correct solution...
As to IGW question, they are geared different / reversed in the upper half. Which brings to question oil pump operation in the lower while in reverse. I believe they share same oil pump as the W's, which is a sliding valve mechanism that clock to flow same direction no matter which direction the output shaft is spinning. Plan to follow up on that question today..
As to IGW question, they are geared different / reversed in the upper half. Which brings to question oil pump operation in the lower while in reverse. I believe they share same oil pump as the W's, which is a sliding valve mechanism that clock to flow same direction no matter which direction the output shaft is spinning. Plan to follow up on that question today..
04-07-2022, 12:28 PM
#1405
Registered
So the drive gear (input shaft) is either in front or behind the driven gear (vertical shaft) on the 6 upper to determine prop shaft rotation
does that mean the dry sump pump is vertical shaft rotation oriented ?
and if the pump is in the lower, then the uppers and lowers must be matched so it pumps as designed in forward where all the load and heat would occur ?
and since it's 1330 hrs your out on the water now getting us the slip and corresponding data ! Right ?
does that mean the dry sump pump is vertical shaft rotation oriented ?
and if the pump is in the lower, then the uppers and lowers must be matched so it pumps as designed in forward where all the load and heat would occur ?
and since it's 1330 hrs your out on the water now getting us the slip and corresponding data ! Right ?
Last edited by outonsafari; 04-07-2022 at 12:31 PM.
04-07-2022, 01:51 PM
#1406
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Thread Starter
First it's raining here today. Not the best boating weather. 
Tonight I'm flying to New Orleans to help bring a big boat back down the ICW over the weekend. So we are in a holding pattern until I get home and switch those lowers again. Then I'll switch the whole drives, like I actually know what I'm doing.
The Lake X alum got a good laugh out of my dock excursion yesterday. Said at least this wasn't a crash box boat. But short story is no issue with pumps, as they switch direction automatically. So nothing damaged by letting them idle with lowers on wrong side. What is difference is loading of the lower gear sets. In correct rotation the load is evenly distributed between both ring and pinion sets.
Last thing I learned is the older swept back, tiebar mount not on top, or long upper case 6's are totally different. According to Jeff, those you can swap the lowers for rotation. He actually had one on the stand, but I didn't peak into the guts to see. On a newer dry sump 6, the upper pinion gear is either towards the front of the case, or the back of the case to change your rotation..
As to the oiling of the upper gears, simple little spray bar that points at them. Lower end pump has a transfer tube to upper half, which I was instructed to be certain to install correctly. That's all there is to em. Lower case is the tank, pump in the nose cone which send oil up a tube to lube the top gears and bearings. Back in the day it was a mystery I guess when Weismann modified first 6's that became what we know as a dry sump 6 today.
Now we know. I feel a little smarter at least..
Tonight I'm flying to New Orleans to help bring a big boat back down the ICW over the weekend. So we are in a holding pattern until I get home and switch those lowers again. Then I'll switch the whole drives, like I actually know what I'm doing.
The Lake X alum got a good laugh out of my dock excursion yesterday. Said at least this wasn't a crash box boat. But short story is no issue with pumps, as they switch direction automatically. So nothing damaged by letting them idle with lowers on wrong side. What is difference is loading of the lower gear sets. In correct rotation the load is evenly distributed between both ring and pinion sets.
Last thing I learned is the older swept back, tiebar mount not on top, or long upper case 6's are totally different. According to Jeff, those you can swap the lowers for rotation. He actually had one on the stand, but I didn't peak into the guts to see. On a newer dry sump 6, the upper pinion gear is either towards the front of the case, or the back of the case to change your rotation..
As to the oiling of the upper gears, simple little spray bar that points at them. Lower end pump has a transfer tube to upper half, which I was instructed to be certain to install correctly. That's all there is to em. Lower case is the tank, pump in the nose cone which send oil up a tube to lube the top gears and bearings. Back in the day it was a mystery I guess when Weismann modified first 6's that became what we know as a dry sump 6 today.
Now we know. I feel a little smarter at least..
Last edited by kidturbo; 04-07-2022 at 02:02 PM.
04-07-2022, 02:50 PM
#1407
Registered
First it's raining here today. Not the best boating weather.
Tonight I'm flying to New Orleans to help bring a big boat back down the ICW over the weekend. So we are in a holding pattern until I get home and switch those lowers again. Then I'll switch the whole drives, like I actually know what I'm doing.
The Lake X alum got a good laugh out of my dock excursion yesterday. Said at least this wasn't a crash box boat. But short story is no issue with pumps, as they switch direction automatically. So nothing damaged by letting them idle with lowers on wrong side. What is difference is loading of the lower gear sets. In correct rotation the load is evenly distributed between both ring and pinion sets.
Last thing I learned is the older swept back, tiebar mount not on top, or long upper case 6's are totally different. According to Jeff, those you can swap the lowers for rotation. He actually had one on the stand, but I didn't peak into the guts to see. On a newer dry sump 6, the upper pinion gear is either towards the front of the case, or the back of the case to change your rotation..
As to the oiling of the upper gears, simple little spray bar that points at them. Lower end pump has a transfer tube to upper half, which I was instructed to be certain to install correctly. That's all there is to em. Lower case is the tank, pump in the nose cone which send oil up a tube to lube the top gears and bearings. Back in the day it was a mystery I guess when Weismann modified first 6's that became what we know as a dry sump 6 today.
Now we know. I feel a little smarter at least..
Tonight I'm flying to New Orleans to help bring a big boat back down the ICW over the weekend. So we are in a holding pattern until I get home and switch those lowers again. Then I'll switch the whole drives, like I actually know what I'm doing.
The Lake X alum got a good laugh out of my dock excursion yesterday. Said at least this wasn't a crash box boat. But short story is no issue with pumps, as they switch direction automatically. So nothing damaged by letting them idle with lowers on wrong side. What is difference is loading of the lower gear sets. In correct rotation the load is evenly distributed between both ring and pinion sets.
Last thing I learned is the older swept back, tiebar mount not on top, or long upper case 6's are totally different. According to Jeff, those you can swap the lowers for rotation. He actually had one on the stand, but I didn't peak into the guts to see. On a newer dry sump 6, the upper pinion gear is either towards the front of the case, or the back of the case to change your rotation..
As to the oiling of the upper gears, simple little spray bar that points at them. Lower end pump has a transfer tube to upper half, which I was instructed to be certain to install correctly. That's all there is to em. Lower case is the tank, pump in the nose cone which send oil up a tube to lube the top gears and bearings. Back in the day it was a mystery I guess when Weismann modified first 6's that became what we know as a dry sump 6 today.
Now we know. I feel a little smarter at least..
05-01-2022, 01:58 PM
#1408
Registered
Thread Starter
Back with some more updates, after my two day boat trip from NOLO took us an extra 4 days.
Once I got back, we swapped the lower units again, putting them back in their correct rotation. And while at it, said lets just pull those 2" spacers. While it would have been nice to test them in the lowest setting spinning outward, ultimately they were running deeper than recommended. So not wishing to risk developing a leak, or screwing something up by taking them apart a third time, I picked up some standard length oil tubes and studs, and laid the 2" spacers to the side. Didn't get a lot of run time in past couple outings, but engine load is down, slip # and roost is up again.. Soon as I get some high speed numbers, will switch them to spinning out.
Once I got back, we swapped the lower units again, putting them back in their correct rotation. And while at it, said lets just pull those 2" spacers. While it would have been nice to test them in the lowest setting spinning outward, ultimately they were running deeper than recommended. So not wishing to risk developing a leak, or screwing something up by taking them apart a third time, I picked up some standard length oil tubes and studs, and laid the 2" spacers to the side. Didn't get a lot of run time in past couple outings, but engine load is down, slip # and roost is up again.. Soon as I get some high speed numbers, will switch them to spinning out.
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Gimme Fuel (05-04-2022), hogie roll (05-01-2022)
05-02-2022, 02:13 AM
#1409
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Thread Starter
Ah I almost forgot, drive height testing on Saturday ended with a bit of a bang...
After a nice leisurely 10 mile cruise down Sarasota bay, ending with a run out Big Pass to check the tides, while getting on plane coming back in the pass, I hear what I think is a backfire. Realizing diesels don't backfire, or if they do it's never good outcome, and the boost gauge on port engine no longer seems to be responding, I shut it down and open the hatch. Upon inspection of the air filter, I notice that something has exited through the filter. Or it just got shot with a 12gauge slug. Today's world, ya never can be 100% certain. But upon removal I discover it was shrapnel from the turbo compressor wheel.Which is now lodged sideways in the housing..
Not sure of the cause yet. She we spinning pretty good with both props loose, and just about ready to up shift into high gear when this occurred. Guessing there was an overspeed issue that broke the shaft on the compressor side of the center sectoin cause no oil leaks came with it. Engine seems fine since it looks like most of the wheel exited out the inlet on compressor hosing. Tomorrow I will tear into it further. But for now, Bullseye's best joined the list of parts that have failed the VooDoo test...
After a nice leisurely 10 mile cruise down Sarasota bay, ending with a run out Big Pass to check the tides, while getting on plane coming back in the pass, I hear what I think is a backfire. Realizing diesels don't backfire, or if they do it's never good outcome, and the boost gauge on port engine no longer seems to be responding, I shut it down and open the hatch. Upon inspection of the air filter, I notice that something has exited through the filter. Or it just got shot with a 12gauge slug. Today's world, ya never can be 100% certain. But upon removal I discover it was shrapnel from the turbo compressor wheel.Which is now lodged sideways in the housing..
Not sure of the cause yet. She we spinning pretty good with both props loose, and just about ready to up shift into high gear when this occurred. Guessing there was an overspeed issue that broke the shaft on the compressor side of the center sectoin cause no oil leaks came with it. Engine seems fine since it looks like most of the wheel exited out the inlet on compressor hosing. Tomorrow I will tear into it further. But for now, Bullseye's best joined the list of parts that have failed the VooDoo test...
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Gimme Fuel (05-04-2022)
