Taking our sport to the "Next Level"
02-24-2007, 05:32 PM
#141
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being an average guy..it doesnt matter if the boats go 90 or 200, as long as it looks fast, what looks fast to the average guy watching tv?? big roostertails..big splashes, big air, big noise..the average guy has a "monster truck " mentality..it needs to be exciting. to the average tv viewer watching a big cat doing 180, floating along nice level and in control is BORING!! that same cat in big water doin 95 8 feet in the air half sideways..thats exciting. since Im trying to work my way into doing rescue at races, I can honestly say I pray no one stuffs it, rolls it, gets ejected etc.. I would much rather watch the race than fix someone. but in the mind of joe tv viewer...when he is watching nascar and the cars are going round and round single file, he gets up makes a sandwhich and grabs a beer..but when he hears tires squeal on tv, he drops the sandwhich, spills the beer and dives over the couch to see the wreck. we dont need to wreck boats..we dont need to kill people, we need good even classes where several boats are banging it out head to head racing hard, and that will get the guy leaning foreward off the couch glued to the tv screaming for the "red boat" to kick the yellow boats ass..then you cut to the onboard camera to see the driver and throttleman bouncing around like rag dolls screaming at each other to go faster!!! the yellow boat passes the red boat at the finish by inches...pulls up to the dock, tv camera in his face he throws his helmet in the air and does a backflip off the boat into the water..joe tv viewer sits back on the couch, takes a drink from his beer and thinks " damn that was cool" as he daydreams about being the back flip guy as the viagra commercial plays in the background.. when you get guys all across the country to sit in front of there tv's and do that, you will have a good second tier motorsport, you will get bigger sponsors and the money will come in.. if you dont, the second its gets boring joe tv is changing the channel..shows over, grave diggers doing donutes on channel 13
02-24-2007, 05:42 PM
#142
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Mike S.
Is there a point to OSS anymore? I am being serious, not nasty. But after 3 years of declining boat count, more classes, less stable schedules, loss of most of the original founders, and truth be told, no business plan for genuine growth and success, is there a point to keeping it on life support for another year or two?
J.C. is the only survivor. He has withstood the test of time and some incredible challenges. No one else has. He will never be defeated. He will never lose Key West. His events are better and more stable.
It is not like the old days when unification was impossible due to conflicting egos of individual owners, i.e. me and APBA; Gifford and USO, etc.
Turn OSS into an owners' group and go racing with SBI, OPA and all the good guys over there. The rivalries preventing unification in the past were always between the owners of the sanctioning groups and the racers' loyalties to them. So what now?
Again, I have no dog in the fight anymore. Just a perspective having been away and seen what has happened to the sport. It is very, very, very sad. At least if the remaining OSS teams went to SBI, there would be events with 40 boats or more and perhaps with everyone in one place, the focus would be on making it better and more fun, rather than fighting.
At some point, someone has to wake-up, and take an inventory of where OSS is now versus where and what all the original promises said it would be.
No offense but Billy is a plumber. Not sure that is much better than a lawyer. John is a boat racing businessman. Like him or not he makes it work, has for years, and will continue to do so for as long as he wants to. Time to give in and go have some fun.
Take it for what it is worth.
Is there a point to OSS anymore? I am being serious, not nasty. But after 3 years of declining boat count, more classes, less stable schedules, loss of most of the original founders, and truth be told, no business plan for genuine growth and success, is there a point to keeping it on life support for another year or two?
J.C. is the only survivor. He has withstood the test of time and some incredible challenges. No one else has. He will never be defeated. He will never lose Key West. His events are better and more stable.
It is not like the old days when unification was impossible due to conflicting egos of individual owners, i.e. me and APBA; Gifford and USO, etc.
Turn OSS into an owners' group and go racing with SBI, OPA and all the good guys over there. The rivalries preventing unification in the past were always between the owners of the sanctioning groups and the racers' loyalties to them. So what now?
Again, I have no dog in the fight anymore. Just a perspective having been away and seen what has happened to the sport. It is very, very, very sad. At least if the remaining OSS teams went to SBI, there would be events with 40 boats or more and perhaps with everyone in one place, the focus would be on making it better and more fun, rather than fighting.
At some point, someone has to wake-up, and take an inventory of where OSS is now versus where and what all the original promises said it would be.
No offense but Billy is a plumber. Not sure that is much better than a lawyer. John is a boat racing businessman. Like him or not he makes it work, has for years, and will continue to do so for as long as he wants to. Time to give in and go have some fun.
Take it for what it is worth.
united we stand, divided we fall
mike stancombe
02-24-2007, 08:32 PM
#143
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the other alternative to sealed spec motors...claimer motors, if say a stock 525 is what the class runs, figure that 525 costs 'X' amount of dollars..i think your cheating, I throw the bucks on the table. I own your motor.
02-24-2007, 09:32 PM
#144
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National/World Sanctioning : WPPA
NE Div. - Midwest Div - West Div - Southern Div - Overseas Div
OPA - OSS - POPRA - SBI/APBA - Class 1
Press Release Link on WPPA
APBA used to have all Divisional and National events.
Perhaps if all organizations worked under the WPPA Banner as did all of the local clubs back in the day of APBA, it could get back to 1 National/World Sanctioning body?
Just a thought.......
NE Div. - Midwest Div - West Div - Southern Div - Overseas Div
OPA - OSS - POPRA - SBI/APBA - Class 1
Press Release Link on WPPA
APBA used to have all Divisional and National events.
Perhaps if all organizations worked under the WPPA Banner as did all of the local clubs back in the day of APBA, it could get back to 1 National/World Sanctioning body?
Just a thought.......
02-24-2007, 10:17 PM
#145
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It's easier to make break out speeds, I think on top of racing costs it would be tough to plunk down 30k for someones used race motor lol. The principle of equal power works well in cars, but unless there all the same brand boats its tough to make it equal, even then, we run a 2002 Fountain, Reggie is always R & D ing his boats so he puts a new one out and it would be unlikely we could beat it. On the other hand, we don't want to stiffle the builders from evolving the hulls to make them faster and safer. Sheesh my head is spinning.
02-25-2007, 09:33 AM
#146
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You're up kinda early yourself. I thought you young Playboy types slept in till at least noon. 
Louie, I think we're somewhat on the same page. While I am all for spec motors, I'm all for the spec motor builder that can give the racers the most bang for the buck. This would include on-site support at each race.
Doug is right, We can hash out the motor stuff later. Getting back on the original intent of the thread...
Mike Stancombe, (congrats BTW), brought up the unified World Championships. I think almost everyone would agree this would be huge. However, simply telling our respective sanctioning body leaders "this is what we want so make it happen" is probably not gonna fly. The fact is, John C pretty much owns Key West. He has said any boat can come race Key West, but it will be on his terms. From the OSS officials point of view this may seem unacceptable. From Johns' point of view, what would he change to accomadate the OSS boats, and why should he? (i.e. what's in it for him?). Remember, John C doesn't care about boat count. He seems to make more money with 40 boats as opposed to 140. So, how can the race teams convince Carbonell to want more boats in Key West?
Hey, I got the twin cassette package at a garage sale for .50 cents. I'm thinkin I got my moneys worth!
Louie, I think we're somewhat on the same page. While I am all for spec motors, I'm all for the spec motor builder that can give the racers the most bang for the buck. This would include on-site support at each race.
Doug is right, We can hash out the motor stuff later. Getting back on the original intent of the thread...
Mike Stancombe, (congrats BTW), brought up the unified World Championships. I think almost everyone would agree this would be huge. However, simply telling our respective sanctioning body leaders "this is what we want so make it happen" is probably not gonna fly. The fact is, John C pretty much owns Key West. He has said any boat can come race Key West, but it will be on his terms. From the OSS officials point of view this may seem unacceptable. From Johns' point of view, what would he change to accomadate the OSS boats, and why should he? (i.e. what's in it for him?). Remember, John C doesn't care about boat count. He seems to make more money with 40 boats as opposed to 140. So, how can the race teams convince Carbonell to want more boats in Key West?
Hey, I got the twin cassette package at a garage sale for .50 cents. I'm thinkin I got my moneys worth!
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Abby-someone
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02-25-2007, 09:34 AM
#147
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J
02-25-2007, 11:39 AM
#148
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You're up kinda early yourself. I thought you young Playboy types slept in till at least noon.
Louie, I think we're somewhat on the same page. While I am all for spec motors, I'm all for the spec motor builder that can give the racers the most bang for the buck. This would include on-site support at each race.
Doug is right, We can hash out the motor stuff later. Getting back on the original intent of the thread...
Mike Stancombe, (congrats BTW), brought up the unified World Championships. I think almost everyone would agree this would be huge. However, simply telling our respective sanctioning body leaders "this is what we want so make it happen" is probably not gonna fly. The fact is, John C pretty much owns Key West. He has said any boat can come race Key West, but it will be on his terms. From the OSS officials point of view this may seem unacceptable. From Johns' point of view, what would he change to accomadate the OSS boats, and why should he? (i.e. what's in it for him?). Remember, John C doesn't care about boat count. He seems to make more money with 40 boats as opposed to 140. So, how can the race teams convince Carbonell to want more boats in Key West?
Hey, I got the twin cassette package at a garage sale for .50 cents. I'm thinkin I got my moneys worth!
Louie, I think we're somewhat on the same page. While I am all for spec motors, I'm all for the spec motor builder that can give the racers the most bang for the buck. This would include on-site support at each race.
Doug is right, We can hash out the motor stuff later. Getting back on the original intent of the thread...
Mike Stancombe, (congrats BTW), brought up the unified World Championships. I think almost everyone would agree this would be huge. However, simply telling our respective sanctioning body leaders "this is what we want so make it happen" is probably not gonna fly. The fact is, John C pretty much owns Key West. He has said any boat can come race Key West, but it will be on his terms. From the OSS officials point of view this may seem unacceptable. From Johns' point of view, what would he change to accomadate the OSS boats, and why should he? (i.e. what's in it for him?). Remember, John C doesn't care about boat count. He seems to make more money with 40 boats as opposed to 140. So, how can the race teams convince Carbonell to want more boats in Key West?
Hey, I got the twin cassette package at a garage sale for .50 cents. I'm thinkin I got my moneys worth!
02-25-2007, 02:27 PM
#149
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Hey Robbie! Glad to see your input.
I don't disagree with you that fans, (and us racers) love to see boats doing 170+ down the wall coming into the harbor. But it's hard to have the concept of that speed on TV. Also, while 90mph may seem slow compared to what many high end boaters are used to, it is still flat screaming across the water in an open cockpit Factory 2 boat. Remember just 5 or 6 years ago when Factory 1&2 was the most talked about classes on this very website. I agree with you inthat anyone with the $ can buy a pleasureboat easily capable of 130 and more. There is also a ZO6 Vette in a neighbors garage that can probably smoke some of the pure race SCCA cars on the right course. I guess my point is, speed is relative. But remember, we want to sell this show to as large of an audience as possible, including a buttload of folks that own the average weekend open bow. I used that particular speed spread because people really connected with the factory boats since that is what they see on most of the lakes, coves and shores around the nation. I also agree with Rich in that at some point (speed), an open cockpit boat is more dangerous than acceptable. (Please, Let's save that debate for another thread).
I'm not insinuating that Factory 2 should be the premier class. Not by a long shot. But what normal weekend lakeboater or shore runner would know the difference if Super V is running 114mph or 140? And can the average fan really tell the difference if a SuperCat is doing 120 as opposed 145?
On a side note, Rich and Mike chewin olive branches... I'm thinking this single thread could be a huge leap towards shaping a successful future of our sport.
I don't disagree with you that fans, (and us racers) love to see boats doing 170+ down the wall coming into the harbor. But it's hard to have the concept of that speed on TV. Also, while 90mph may seem slow compared to what many high end boaters are used to, it is still flat screaming across the water in an open cockpit Factory 2 boat. Remember just 5 or 6 years ago when Factory 1&2 was the most talked about classes on this very website. I agree with you inthat anyone with the $ can buy a pleasureboat easily capable of 130 and more. There is also a ZO6 Vette in a neighbors garage that can probably smoke some of the pure race SCCA cars on the right course. I guess my point is, speed is relative. But remember, we want to sell this show to as large of an audience as possible, including a buttload of folks that own the average weekend open bow. I used that particular speed spread because people really connected with the factory boats since that is what they see on most of the lakes, coves and shores around the nation. I also agree with Rich in that at some point (speed), an open cockpit boat is more dangerous than acceptable. (Please, Let's save that debate for another thread).
I'm not insinuating that Factory 2 should be the premier class. Not by a long shot. But what normal weekend lakeboater or shore runner would know the difference if Super V is running 114mph or 140? And can the average fan really tell the difference if a SuperCat is doing 120 as opposed 145?
On a side note, Rich and Mike chewin olive branches... I'm thinking this single thread could be a huge leap towards shaping a successful future of our sport.
02-25-2007, 02:46 PM
#150
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just a passing thought on the whole motor issue... would solve motor equality, support at the race etc..you get one motor builder, he builds X amount of identical sealed motors. beginning of the year a team leases the motor..first year of a particular term lease amount is basically about cost of motor and one rebuild , next year lease cost goes down to equal say two rebuilds. engine builder does all work on the motors. blow an engine simply exchange it for another one. motor builder comes to each race with spare parts and spare motors and a couple mechanics. after every race motors are pulled inspected and shipped back to the teamrotating engines between teams.
